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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed (Threadbans in OP)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,188 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    There are many accepted facts about the case. There are some disputed 'possible facts' and the rest is conjecture. The lack of forensics makes it very difficult to make a realistic scenario.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,188 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Well I guess

    She was killed by someone

    She sustained multiple injuries

    That a block was the final blow to her head

    She put on boots

    The gate had several bloodstains

    No fingerprints found in the house

    Disputed was the 'missing 'axe/poke'r and a diary



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 984 ✭✭✭flanna01



    Apparently, Sophie never traveled anywhere without her diary.

    As a member of the arty farty brigade, she was prone to writing down any all bollix when the moment took her..

    Her diary was missing, it was not in the house, her car or handbag.

    Just another piece of the puzzling jigsaw.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,698 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    That does not seem to me to be the act of someone in a frenzied rage attack but deliberated.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,098 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    "Unlike you, I, along with the dozens of sheep farmers I know am perfectly aware why there is sheep wire attached to the end of that gate and suffice to say its purpose is not to keep the gate open."

    You misunderstood, I never said the sheep wire was attached to keep gate open, just that because it was there it helped.

    The clue is in the name, sheep wire. I'll explain why it's on that particular gate.

    Even though the gate is on a slope it is hung plumb and level, and if done properly will remain in the open position without having to prop it open. To allow the gate to open up against the slope it has to be hung higher to clear the ground. Thus when the gate is closed it will leave a gap underneath for small animals to get through. Flexible sheep wire added to bottom of the gate closes this gap and on opening will drag on the ground as the gate meets higher ground, helping to keep the gate open.

    You can call me out on anything, if I'm wrong I'll admit it, if I think I'm right I'll defend my point of view.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,698 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    If 'regular' people can be involved in land disputes, so can pretty ones.

    And if something was going to flare up then it would have to be when she is there to dispute things \ be disputed with. Holiday home owners can be involved in disputes too.

    That's not to say it was a dispute along those lines, just I don't think those are red flags against the theory.

    We're already into 'less likely' territory even if it does turn out to be Bailey.

    There's no evidence of sexual assault if it was someone being rebuffed.

    If it was the case that Bailey had some romantic involvement with Sophie, well, a married man has more reason to murder a mistress to protect a marriage if she threatens to tell all etc Bailey wasn't married.

    There's no evidence of a stalker type obsession from Bailey towards Sophie.

    So if a theory is consistent with the evidence, and its own internal logic, being less likely isn't a valid reason imo to exclude it.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Somehow don't think bailey had any "romantic" involvement with Sophie

    The only romantic involvement was likely in his head , he would hardly be her type which would go some way to explaining the confrontation which may have ensued when he arrived at the house

    Assuming it was bailey which I believe it probably was



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,698 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Good point about the 'mental turmoil' aspect.

    I'm not sure about the Alfie angle, although he could use the 'shock' of finding the body to explain that.

    Does it have to be a professional hitman? What about someone used to criminal violence?

    What about a scenario where criminals go to the property - either to threaten Sophie to keep quiet about something OR looking for these mysterious two French men reported by the Mirror to be on the run in the area and who were known to Sophie. And things got out of hand.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,098 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    “gardai would have a narrow range of suspects for that , if it was likely”

    They ended up with a very narrow range of suspects, just one; Bailey.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,484 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    What hitman bludgeons their target to death with a concrete block at the scene in a loud and messy fashion outside in the open with houses not very far away? This is away with the fairies type stuff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Ya a land dispute would likely have been resolved by the gardai

    As we know ,the gardai suspect bailey knew her and went to the house that night

    The hitman with no gun and the land dispute scenarios are less likely i believe



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    One that doesn't want it to look like a hitman?

    😎


    Btw the thread is full of nonsense but I can't seem to unbook mark it and new posts keep popping up 😡



  • Posts: 403 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Didn't harbison say at least two? I could be wrong but i seem to remember he said there was a depression under her head caused by the blow or blows with the block.

    Some reports say up to 30 or even 50 with the other stone s

    Her skull was exposed and marks showed her neck possibly stamped on. Someone capable of serious extreme violence



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    You already know the answer to this question or should

    Bailey is simply the chief suspect

    Anyway these debates will just go round in circles indefinitely



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,188 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Land and right of way disputes escalate quickly (country people know this) Guards won't be involved until it's too late. It may have been a mistaken identity or the block was to destroy evidence? Had she bit him? She must have been screaming blue murder I'd imagine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    No but they'd have suspects immediately if it was a land dispute



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,188 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Well one story was that 2 men were looking for someone and may have come to the wrong house?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    Can you not discern that it's absolute nonsense as a theory ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,188 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Discern? No, plenty of theories maybe one of them is correct.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not the worst to be honest.

    I worst I read here or on some other thread that it was a tradesman.

    He had called to do some work, she told him to go away as it was too early.

    He flew into a rage and killed her.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,992 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Has it ever been fully established that others were using the cottage for liaisons and the bath? Where did that come from?

    “It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be” - A. Dumbledore

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    I don't follow the case closely but there was a point in one of the documentaries where bailey refused to talk about something

    Think it was the Jim Sheridan doc, can't remember for the life of me what it was he wouldn't talk about but it seemed suspicious

    Mind you everything about bailey is suspicious



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 930 ✭✭✭bemak


    Lot of interesting theories on here. Personally I think that the attack happened early morning (its been said that there was breakfast contents in her stomach). I think that she likely saw someone messing with the gate and decided to put on her boots and confront them. She likely went down to the gate via the field as it's a quicker route (wasn't their wine or something thrown in the field? - might have been Sophies 'weapon' as she rushed out the door). Dispute occurs regarding the gate at the gate. Attacker is enroute back to the house when they spot the block on the pump house to finish the job. They then return back to Sophies house presumably to see if anyone was there etc. They leave blood marks on door etc. Nobody in the house gives them ample opportunity to take the diary and anything else incriminating. I think that they then return home to their house to clean up. Wife of the attacker then "finds" Sophies body in the morning and alerts the gardai. Attacker is Alfie Lyons. Just my opinion!


    *also, Alfie Lyons claims that he introduced Bailey to Sophie - further diverting the spotlight from himself



  • Posts: 403 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Bailey always diverts when awkward questions come up goes to talking about poetry. he won't give a straight answer to the timeline of that morning



  • Posts: 403 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    . They leave blood marks on door etc.

    but no trace inside.

    Nobody in the house gives them ample opportunity to take the diary and anything else incriminating.

    How come the blood did not drip inside?Not even a fleck. And who would be fighting about land early in the morning a couple days before christmas



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,698 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Or they came to the house for a specific reason but the people they were looking for weren't there... Sophie encountered them, things got out of hand.

    But it is also understood Gardai are also pursuing a connection between the tragic filmmaker and two other French men who lived in West Cork, although the men themselves are not suspects. The pair were hiding out in the isolated rural area after receiving death threats from a French criminal gang. It is understood that Sophie had met the men while she was in Ireland and Gardai are investigating whether she was targeted because of her friendship with them.

    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/garda-trace-french-speaker-scratches-28729258

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,698 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06




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