Porter was still at TH when Cronin left iirc; it’s clearly a problem position for us.
And Farrell has been pretty willing to give guys a chance. I think there’s a decent chance he could be 2nd choice LH now, regardless of his position 18 months ago.
But if he wasn’t even called into camp before Porter moved to LH then is it not a stretch to say he could be in the 23 after Porter moved to LH? If he wasn’t in the picture when there were less options, why would he be a key guy with more options?
By the same logic, if they were interested in Cronin would they not have encouraged him to stay rather than convert Porter?
Because the other options are now 34 (Kilcoyne) and 35 (Healy). Cronin has now just turned 32; not a spring chicken but I absolutely think he could be ahead of the alternatives now.
They may not have been interested in Cronin when he left. That doesn’t mean he couldn’t have played himself into contention now tho.
I think boards.ie greatly overestimates the decline of Healy, think he'd be second choice regardless.
He was 30 when he left, hadn’t had a look in with Ireland since 2016. It would be possible but highly unlikely that he would have broken into contention I’d think.
But outside of 10, it’s probably our most problem position. And our 2nd choice is 35. It’s comfortably one of the prime positions where someone could’ve played themselves into contention.
They did, Loughman.
Exactly. And Cronin was ahead of Loughman when he left. So I don’t see why it’s such a stretch to suggest he could’ve played himself into contention.
To be honest I feel that Kilcoyne (despite being younger) has declined more and I'm glad that Loughman has gotten ahead of him as 3rd choice.
There’s also nothing to say Loughman wouldn’t have overtaken Cronin by now either. Munster obviously thought so no?
I don’t think it’s that simple tbh; Cronin was always selected of Loughman before he left Munster.
That, almost by definition, indicates budget was also a large factor in the decision to retain Loughman over Cronin.
You leave Ireland you're out.
I don’t think anyone is saying otherwise.
Good performance though.
I still think unless both Munster and Ireland got it wrong. He was never getting near the Irish side. He wasn’t in contention when were struggling for a back up to Healy. Killer was next in line when McGrath got injured and we converted a TH eventually rather than try get him stay. Maybe he just wasn’t good enough in the eyes of two sets of Irish coaches.
They don't have to have gotten it wrong - he just might be a better player now, Leciester or his time in Biarritz may have brought him on. Factors like coaching can't be ignored in the equation either and I'm not too sure how much Erasmus cared about developing the club.
All that said - if Cronin is having a late career flourish it suggests the capacity to play at that level has always been present but unfound. He has to take some blame for that also and if he's missed out on Irish selection despite being retrospectively good enough then I'd again look at the player.
We're also increasingly seeing talent coming through and establishing earlier at Ireland level across all positions. Look how many 23 - 26 year olds in the first choice and bench pack. Increasingly it looks that moving forward you will need to get in earlier to get a decent run.
But this is being based on one performance. He had some purple patches with Munster where people were saying he should be ahead of Healy for Ireland. He’s a Ross Moloney type player. A very good pro who is never going to be quite good enough for International.
The IRFU wouldn’t have stopped keeping an eye on him when he left either. If he was on the radar for Irish selection. He would have been approached after Biarritz.
Healy didn't do ok with Ireland for months. He's the weakest link in the 23, with back-up 10. Loughman, Cronin whoever you want but not him for RWC.
Decline is obvious, you all know he will not have 2 games of expected quality vs Saffers France or N-Z in a row
In your opinion.
Clearly not one shared by the Irish or Leinster coaching staff. The same as with Murray, Carberry and to a lesser degree Sexton. It’s up to the players behind them to show the coaches they are good enough. Loughman is pushing up, so is Casey. Though when fit, the coaches seem to go with Healy and Murray and Carberry.
It’s not just one performance tho; he’s been praised for his performances for Leicester this season, I remember reading as much in the 42.
Ultimately, after 10, the next position I worry most about an injury to our starting 15 is LH. I don’t think it’s a huge stretch to say he could’ve made a run at it had he still been in Ireland.
McGrath was a brilliant player - he didn’t “fall off a cliff” he had terrible luck re injury that left him unable play to his level of talent.
You’re doing him a huge disservice, he’s one of Ireland (and Leinster’s) greatest props.
Yeah but some prefer hyperbole and drama over fact and objectivity.
As for the whole Cronin debate, he could have found the form he needed to make it into Irish contention had he stayed. He could also have seen his form plateau or even dip due to completely different coaching structures and playing environment. He could have had a career ending injury. You could what if this seven ways from Sunday. I’m not really sure I see the point though. He wasn’t within an asses roar of Ireland before he was released by Munster.
The merits of decisions can only be judged based on the info available at that point in time. I don’t remember anyone saying then that Ireland were letting go a potential international. And we were in the worse position then compared to now. At least we have Loughman coming through now. We had Healy and Killer, two guys coming towards the end of their careers, there 2 years ago. Maybe Cronin could have pushed on. Or maybe he’s just in an environment that suits him and/or has coaches that are well equipped to get the best out of him. We’ll never know.
I initially thought Frisch might be a bolter for next year's RWC, and would need injuries, but after his defensive display today in Northampton, I'd be very surprised if he's not in the squad for the 6N. He'll be hampered somewhat in that he's "only" a 13 (so won't be any use as a 23), but if Ringrose gets injured he could be the next man in to start there. Would love to see him play outside Henshaw. I genuinely don't think we'd concede any points.
Genuinely? Really? Seems a very odd thing to believe…..
Yes. Genuinely. He was outstanding today. Try find the game through a, ahem, "perfectly reputable online rebroadcast", if you can.
Frisch played at 12 in 80% of the games he's played so far as a professional. He never played at 13 once for Bristol.
He's looking like a decent signing and Hume's rocky patch might well see him make the 6N squad, but hard to believe he'd leapfrog Aki and McCloskey into the XV.
He'll need more than that to get into the 6N squad. It largely balances out his underwhelming showing the previous week. He's obviously on the periphery given he was in the EI squad but he undoubtedly has Aki, Ringrose and Henshaw ahead of him and I would wager that Osborne (who started for Ireland A and went well) would be considered ahead of him too. That's before we mention the Ulster pairing both of whom were picking up caps in 2022.
Then we have Crowley and Frawley who can play 12 and are both ahead in the overall Irish set up. I think 6N squad inclusion would be optimistic, if not out of the question.
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