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Can someone be legally compelled to do their job?

Ginger83

I had a situation (resolved now) where I had a lot of problems with a builder. I contacted building control about the issues as there was multiple breaches of building regulations however building control declined to inspect. They said "with the best of intentions we must decline to inspect as it would be unpalatable to all concerned".

Would it have been possible to legally compel them to do their job? I would have buried the cowboy builder with their report.

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joeguevara

This us a pretty good summary of the building control enforcement obligations https://mcmahonsolicitors.ie/building-control-overview/

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058275444/can-someone-be-legally-compelled-to-do-their-job

Am I reading it correctly that, you called building control on yourself?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985096#Comment_119985096

In is there job to enforce building regulations. But that is does not extend to performing project progress inspections or contract administration.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985524#Comment_119985524

If a building is not compliant. The fault lies with the builder, the certifier and the owner or developer. The split of that liability depends on how the work came about and what the noncompliant is.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985858#Comment_119985858

This is incorrect. Building control do not inspect the builders work, they inspect your development works. If it is in breech, you are in breech. If that beech is due to the builders corner cutting, then it's up to you to bring action against the builder. The fact you didn't have a contract in place may have made that hard. Building control did you a favour as other have said.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058275444/can-someone-be-legally-compelled-to-do-their-job

was it just you and the builder involved or did you have an engineer/architect etc retained too?

if it was just you and the builder then by cutting the cost of a construction professional to oversee the works you can leave yourself open to these sorts of problems potentially.

if you had an engineer etc, supervising the build then they should have been working alot of that out

might i ask why the builder was not terminated during construction if the works were so obviously not in accordance with regs? can you give examples of what was wrong also?

joeguevara

Did you have an architect? They. May have administered a cert. How did ye agree price? Did you receive docs to ensue paperwork in order?

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985958#Comment_119985958

Yes I called the building control authority and reported the builder for breaches of building regulations both during construction and when I gave them the opportunity to put things right.

The building control authority told me that they were in the most awkward position that they were obliged to prosecute me. A builder was employed to carry out grant works and was paid by their council. I told building control to come ahead and that I'd have the kettle on. They found out that their council had paid for the work and it had been signed off without being inspected. They declined to inspect and I was compensated with a new grant and eight weeks in a hotel with the bill paid. The work was demolished and rebuilt by another contractor.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985959#Comment_119985959

It is the responsibility of the building control authority to inspect breaches of building regulations and enforce building regulations. I accepted that I was in breech and informed them of this and that I was willing to accept the prosecution. I'm a terminally ill person sitting at home in a wheelchair, after four winters sleeping on my sofa due to an uninhabitable extension a prosecution wasn't going to make the blindest bit of difference to me. The only thing that it would have done was help me (which it did) and expose a conman

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119986725#Comment_119986725

a prosecution also would have not have got the works redone to the required standard.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985967#Comment_119985967

Hi unfortunately my mistake was trusting a builder. I was coming to terms with a terminal diagnosis at the time and left my trust in the builder. The builder used this to take advantage of the situation.

I noticed a few things during construction like windows being left out but I put it down to general errors. It was only in winter after construction that I realised I couldn't heat it. I got a thermal imaging test done which showed massive heat loss. It was found that there was no insulation in the roof and all the radiators were undersized. The builder did repairs but the repairs breached further building regulations.

I brought in a building surveyor and structural engineer to check everything and they said whoever built this thought I'd be dead. I'll check the breaches and let you know.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119986734#Comment_119986734

It would have forced the builder's hand as they would have been prosecuted also.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119986821#Comment_119986821

you wanted the builder who built it improperly in the first place to build it again? Planning enforcement did the right thing by you. you got the work redone properly and to code.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985524#Comment_119985524

The builder is working for the house owner. The house owner is given a grant to cover the cost, but the contract is still between the house owner and the builder. If the builder doesn't do the work, it is up to the house owner to sue the builder, the same enforcement mechanism as anyone has when engaging a private contractor.

In terms of building control, the legislation is fairly weak, and Building Control officers have said in the past that on the rare occasions that they do take a case to Court, they rarely get support from the judges.

On the broader issue of getting public bodies to carry out particular functions, you can try escalating to senior management, or to the Board or Councillors (for a local authority). You can make a complaint to the Ombudsman if they failed to do something, though that's often a fairly fruitless route. I would suggest it would be fruitless in this case.

I'm amazed to hear that an LA get directly involved, AND covered hotel costs. Maybe they saw an exceptional need in your case, or maybe they were terrified of you getting onto Joe Duffy, who knows.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119986821#Comment_119986821

Even if that's correct - and I'm not sure that it is - that wouldn't have got the works done either. For that, you need to sue the builder and prove that, under the terms of your contract with them, they had an obligation owed to you to complete the works in conformity with the building requirements. If the lack of a written contract gives you problems here, having the builder prosecuted wouldn't solve those problems.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119986890#Comment_119986890

That's why I don't believe the Building Control Authority have much power at all. You can't say that they'll prosecute the home owner if a home owner produces evidence of breaches of building regulations and they refuse to inspect. It's almost comical.

The council were very much involved. I had produced evidence that they signed off the work without checking it raising it's own questions. The council had my care team in contact about the situation. A large charity made contact with DIY SOS Ireland to see if they could help. 3 TDs got involved, 1 discussed the problems in the Dail which was live on tv. The local paper contacted me and got involved. The builder made a comment through their solicitor. The paper never named the builder but ran a story and hasn't done them any favours. This is public money after all.

We're way off topic sorry.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119986876#Comment_119986876

The builder had breached building regulations during construction.

I allowed them to carry out repairs and they breached building regulations again with a dicky up.

There is no way I would have agreed to allow them in again. They are the pillar of their community doing work for the church, name on gaa jerseys but they are conmen and so many people have contacted me since about their own problems with them. The builder gets very little local work only people unknown to them. The locals call them "the gypsy (builder's name)"

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119987093#Comment_119987093

your remedy for your issues with the builder was taking the builder to court. you getting prosecuted for breaching building regulations would not help you.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119987115#Comment_119987115

This is where the situation got sticky as I was informed that I didn't have the life expectancy to wait for the legal process and the builder knew this. I needed to use what was built so a solution had to be found.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119987161#Comment_119987161

Planning enforcement did the right thing. Them doing an inspection would not have helped you in any way.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119987178#Comment_119987178

It would have confirmed and proved non compliance with building regulations which the builder was denying.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119987202#Comment_119987202

and how would that have helped you?

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119987215#Comment_119987215

It would have allowed the building control authority to prosecute the builder forcing them to remedy the situation or have building control no power? Another poster said they've loads of power. I'm not trying to argue but which is it. If they have no power the builder has found a niche in the market, cut corners on jobs for people who won't see court.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119987281#Comment_119987281

and you would still be living in substandard building works. and facing prosecution of your own.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119987297#Comment_119987297

I accept your point in that I would be still living with the problems until they were rectified.

At my stage in life a prosecution is merely a piece of paper, sure to me it would be a day out and I think the building control authority realised that they were going to come out of it looking worse than me.

Would you agree that there is very little accountability in construction? If it was the medical profession you could be struck off.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119987281#Comment_119987281

In the unlikely event that the Council did prosecute the builder under building regs, it would have taken longer for such a prosecution to happen than any direct legal action you might take against the builder. Building regs are not black and white absolute rules. The TGD documents are 'guidance' not absolute requirements. There are many ways to achieve compliance with the actual regs, which tend to be very broad and high level. The TGD is one way, but not the only way to achieve compliance.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119987039#Comment_119987039

What exactly do you mean when you say the Council signed off on the work. Are you talking about approval of the grant? What kind of sign-off are you talking about please?

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119986807#Comment_119986807

im very sorry that this is the situation that you are in, it does seem like the builder was taking advantage of this

but the long and the short of it is that it is between you and the builder as others have said, building control have very little to do with things in this case. as mentioned also, building regulations technically do not have to be followed (its a complex situation but it boils down to that) so its much more to do with what was agreed between you and the builder

i know thats not what you were hoping to hear but thats where you are with this from what i can see im afraid.

but im curious as to what you meant when you said they left out windows? as in, they literally didnt put any opening in the wall or they used incorrect windows?

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119987891#Comment_119987891

I'm no expert but do you mind me asking you how do you achieve compliance of lets say the walls if the builder doesn't put in the minimum insulation required? Or how do you achieve minimum ceiling height compliance of 2.4M if the builder has put in lower ceilings? There are minimum standards required, you can't just say ah sure it's close enough.

I'll give you an example of one of the problems and you can tell us if you find it acceptable. The builder built an extension with a flat warm roof. He put insulation on top of the roof but either forgot or didn't know that he had to insulate the sides of the roof so for two years there was a 225mm space at the wall/roof junction completely empty. When the builder was given a fair opportunity to rectify this the building surveyor discovered that the builder had not insulated the roof. He had put a 50mm plasterboard on all ceilings so the ceilings then did not comply and a bedroom could not be classed as a habitable room. The roof was still uninsulated.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119988368#Comment_119988368

I'm no expert, but the question is where did you get those requirements - say the 2.4m minimum height. If that requirement is part of the Technical Guidance Document (TGD), then it is Guidance, rather than an absolute legal requirement in itself.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119988064#Comment_119988064

You would have to wonder what the purpose of building control is so.

It's all sorted now thankfully. The extension was demolished and rebuilt again under a new grant and under the watchful eye of a building surveyor and structural engineer. It's fantastic now but it opens your eyes, you'd have to stoop pretty low to cut corners on a job for a sick person.

Yes the block layer was literally leaving windows out of the walls. Another time I had to speak to the electrician because he wasn't putting in the disabled alarm in the bathroom. Look I could write a book, people wouldn't believe some of it. I've heard everything from we don't do snagging to i didn't pay vat and every time I spoke with the builder about something I noticed out of place his most common reply was "it wasn't me, it was me lads". They are just not the people they portray themselves to be.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119988398#Comment_119988398

A building surveyor inspected the work and the first thing he said was that he couldn't offer a cert of compliance because the ceiling heights did not comply. Not an if or a but or a maybe, the minimum height to comply is 2.4M. A structural engineer who originally was a building surveyor also stated this. When it was put to the builder he swore blind that they were 2.4M.

AnRothar

To the OP, like many things in life your situation is complicated.

Building control's job is to ensure that building regulations are complied with.

In your case they will pursue you as the home owner.

You employed the builder.

If you believe that the builder did construct accordance to regulations then you must prove this.

To do so you must get a qualified person to state where the failures are.

You then take this information to a solicitor and commence proceedings against the builder(assuming you have a provable case).

It's mentioned that you had no qualified supervision on the builder.

Regrettably this is a common occurrence where people get "small" jobs done around the house.

For most of works out without issue. But when it goes wrong it can leave the home owner hanging.

I am glad that you got it sorted.