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Child Item

Should I be charging my brother rent ?

TomSweeney

So our mum died almost a year ago and my brother moved into the house,

I am living abroad and we agreed he'd buy me out.

But the grant of probate has not happened yet, and the waster of a solicitor hasn't even sent away the documents,

so we are in the midst of changing solcitor, so even if those docs get sent tomorrow grant of probate takes 6 months.

He's been living there since the summer and has zero expenses, plus he sold other properties, so I am in more need of this grant of probate to go through then he is.

So he is in no rush.

Should I be charging him rent till next June ?

I fear it could cause a lot of tension, at the same time I can't be running a charity ...

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Akrasia

Are you being serious???

elperello

Who is paying LPT and utilities?

Akrasia

The house would be sitting empty until probate finished. Why would you begrudge your brother a place to stay?

Is the property depreciating because someone is living there? Is he maintaining it?

Jim2007

It’s not what you agreed and it’s not your brothers fault you got an incompetent solicitor. You are not running a charity, just as he is not running an insurance business to cover your loss of income.

if you need cash ask him for an advance against the purchase price.

JayRoc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058274860/should-i-be-charging-my-brother-rent

Do yee both own multiple properties?

(Sorry for your loss btw)

Pawwed Rig

How can you charge rent on a house you do not own? The estate COULD charge rent though in which case his rent would be paid into the estate and be distributed as part of the residue. The estate would need to file income tax returns declaring the income (Form 1 T&E).

Akrasia

Regardless of the legalities. Do you want to destroy your relationship with your brother?

P2C

I suppose it all comes down to the value of the property for probate purposes. Did ye agree a price already ? or will you agree the price when getting valued for probate ? We was in a similar situation . We didn’t apply for probate for 1.5 years and then probate took another year. We agreed a price right at the start. They had the benefit of a rising property market. They had the guts of 2.5 years rent free but they kept the place heated and done some renovations and essential maintenance. The price we agreed was probably on the lower side of the valuations but the end of the day it’s a few grand and we’re all on good terms today.

touts

When you say you agreed he would "buy you out" I take it that you mean he would buy your half of the house you both inherited.

So you plan to charge him rent on a house he already in effect owns 50% of???

Best of luck with that.

However I do sympathise on the delay in probate. I'm in a similar situation. Just over a year since the passing and still no clue when the inheritances will be processed. Just the legal fees seem to be increasing and eating into the pot. It is a system that lawyers seem quite happy to take their time over and then hand in massive fees against the estates. It is morally corrupt but unfortunately that's the system they have created. Until a government decides to reform the legal industry there is little change possible.

My advice would be sit tight and don't destroy your relationship with your brother.

TomSweeney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119965832#Comment_119965832

No, I just own the property where I live (paying a mortgage still), he had 2 other properties (mortgage paid and sold them)

He's the type of lad that still has his confirmation money - yeah really...

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119965830#Comment_119965830

Allowing your brother to live in the family home while it's still in legal limbo, in the months after the death of your parent is a far cry from running a charity

TomSweeney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119965866#Comment_119965866

Agree, I really did not want to charge him 50% rent, I just wanted to see what the opinion here was, people here locally are telling me I should - but it's a different culture.

But it does annoy me how long this is taking .... and it suits the solicitor and my brother.

Good news is , we have a relative thats in the law game and they have recommended a good solicitor who will get the ball rolling

HildaOgdenx

Mod Note - OP I have moved your thread to the Accommodation & Property forum as it is probably more suitable to it.

Local charter now applies.

Hilda

airy fairy

If he's paying property tax, utilities, and is keeping the house heated and of good standard, why would you want rental? At the very least he's paying half the above and is keeping the house safe by living in it.

Why would you destroy your relationship?

Akrasia

Just be patient. The months just past will be a distant memory in a few years. Family is important but so fragile a bond as the years go by.

JayRoc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119965867#Comment_119965867

I'm trying to see your side of this: are you stuck for money? While he has lots, maybe?

Is he holding up probate? Could yee be renting the place out before probate gets sorted?

What's the problem?

TomSweeney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119965880#Comment_119965880

Agreed.

Thanks all.

spaceHopper

No Don't charge him, he's keeping the house safe while all this goes on. If your mum was alive you've be no better of, you'd get no rent. Just get a move on and get the probate done. Agree a value now that he has to pay. That will motivate him to get it done.

Chubowsks

Why not do the probate yourself? Whilst it's a very detailed orientated process and you need to make sure you cross all t's and dot all i's, it is a relatively straightforward process. Definitely nothing too taxing or difficult.

Overall it is a lot quicker, as you have a lot more control on how quickly things move. You can provide an immediate response to a query or question from the Probate Office - whereas if that happens with a solicitor, you are waiting for them to relay this to you, and relay back a response.

That's not to mention the very sizeable costs involved with getting a solicitor to do it.

My father passed towards end of May 2021, I probably had the probate application submitted within 8 weeks after that (the delay was waiting on a death cert during Covid), and I had Grant of Probate in November 2021 - so the probate process itself was 3 months or so in total. The only cost I had was the Probate Office charge - and that's payable whatever way you do probate.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119966262#Comment_119966262

Have you more details on how you went about this? I'm sure a few people will be interested and Lord knows a lot of us now have to deal with paperwork and form filling. I guess it may depend on the complexity or otherwise of the will.

IWW2900

And this is why families fall out. OP, you are mad.

Chubowsks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119966456#Comment_119966456

I basically followed all of the steps outlined on the Probate web-site - ensure you use the information relating to carrying out probate without a solicitor - I don't post very often so cannot post the link, however you can find it with a quick google, or try the following - courts.ie / applying-probate-without-solicitor

Once you are methodical with the documentation they require - and you can do that by using the checklists they provide - then it should go smoothly. As I said, probate took 3-4 months in total for me (even the solicitor I was using for conveyancing was surprised), and that included the Probate Office contacting me to rectify a mistake I made - so it would have been a little bit quicker had that not been the case.

Everything is done via post, but there is a final in-person meeting towards the end of the process, where the executor of the will (which was me) has to give a legal undertaking that the will provided is the correct and final one. This meeting took no more than 20 minutes. The payment was made to the Probate Office at this stage also. This was c.€1k for me, but this was the only cost I incurred. Admittedly the probate cost is higher (double I believe) for the personal probate process, but there are zero legal / solicitor costs involved doing it this way. Based on anecdotal stories I heard from other people, my overall costs ended up being at least 1/3 or a 1/4 of what they would have been if I used a solicitor, and it completed in about 1/4 of the time (minimum!) too.

Any specific questions... I would be more than happy to help :-)

AlanG

Agree you shouldn't charge him unless he's holding up probate. It is difficult to insure and maintain an empty house, you don't own the house, if he paid rent to a foriegn resident landlord he woudl have to withold a chunk for rent and you will mess up the relationship for no real benefit.

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058274860/should-i-be-charging-my-brother-rent

As noted earlier, not yours to rent, estate should be receiving rent iff any,

check to see if brother will have a tax problem arising from the gift of free accommodation from the estate

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119966262#Comment_119966262

ARE THERE CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE THE PERSONAL APPLICANT PROCEDURE CANNOT BE USED? In the following circumstances you must instruct a Solicitor:

(i) Where the person entitled to apply for a Grant of Representation is a Ward of the Court or a person of unsound mind

(ii) Where the person entitled to apply is under the age of 18 years

(iii) Where there are issues concerning the validity of a will

(iv) Where there are issues among the next of kin regarding the estate

(v) Where the original will has been lost

(vi) Where a beneficiary (other than the spouse of the deceased) of over €20,000 of an estate is non resident in this jurisdiction and the potential applicant for the Grant is also non resident

(vii) Where the deceased dies without making a will (intestate) and was domiciled outside of the Republic of Ireland and leaves assets within this jurisdiction and no Grant of Representation has been extracted in the place of domicile.

i dont think they can do probate themselves in this case, due to point (vi)

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119966673#Comment_119966673

The brother could equally well charge the estate for security and property management services provided.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119966634#Comment_119966634

Thanks

DownByTheGarden

OP is he living in your half of the house or his half of the house. You better put some locks on your half of the doors just to make sure. :) . Only in Ireland.

Swaine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119965867#Comment_119965867

You're not exactly coming off as stellar here yourself. Trying to charge your own brother rent on a property you don't even own yet.

Unbelievable greed.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119965868#Comment_119965868

Did I say he was running a charity????