I don't think Carbery is over rated, he's rated against what he showed earlier in his career but injury and dire coaching has diminished him as a player.
The move to Munster hasn't worked out for him at all and the IRFU got that one wrong.
Not blaming Munster here either, loads of fault in the appointment of JVG from the blazers through to Nucifora.
Of course, Carberry is over rated. Always has been. If anything, the gap from Sexton to Carberry is probably bigger. I hope that Crowley can make the leap.
If Sexton goes down....
We've already seen how we perform with a "bang average" 10
We do not need to reduce our chances of winning a 6 nations title to do experimentation that we have already done before.
At this stage we have only got the six nations (where we will not be experimenting) and the rwc warm ups (where we will be consolidating) before RWC 23.
The time for experimenting is over.
Carbery is sextons back up.
No he's still bang average. Carberry wouldn't start for any tier 1 side however, Sexton is 37! He's also brilliant and is easily the best 10 we have. But Carberry could end up starting for us in the world cup. If Sexton is injured or his form falls apart then zoolander is up. I reckon it's an opportunity to see how we perform with a bang average 10!
If he's improved, it's marginal. I don't think he's closed the gap between himself and Sexton much (if at all).
He certainly hasn't improved enough to justify throwing away a 6N in the blind hope that he improves a bit more. It's an utterly nonsensical suggestion.
The amount of faith Munster have shown in him frankly amazes me.
Grand. Let him back up Sexton from the bench. I didn't argue against that.
But the suggestion that we should just throw away a potential grand slam, just to get him some more games, when he's been getting plenty of games for club and country and not improving, is utterly insane.
The best thing for Ireland's development going into the world cup, without question, is to have as strong a 6N as possible and win a GS.
Once again, it's irrelevant if Carbery is better now than he was, the only thing that matters is whether or not anyone else is better than him. As of now, they aren't.
I’d agree with almost the entire crux of this TRC, but on this:
Answer me this. After all those starts for Munster and Ireland, is Carbery any better now than he was in mid 2021?
From 10 anyways, I feel he’s been taking it flatter and happier to take contact this season than all of last. Small signs but a little encouraging.
(Now, whether that’s down to starts is something else entirely alright, mind).
Osbourne could be one to look at as a possible replacement for Lowe in the future. He has all those attributes, tho it remains to be seen if he can develop Lowe's scoring proficiency.
Don't think Sexton will still be first choice when he's 1,000,037 years old.
In a million years, we're never going to leave a fit Sexton out of the Six Nations
And nor should we
In a million years, we're never going to leave a fit Sexton out of the Six Nations. No point debating it and certainly no point getting worked up about it.
+1
No he's not. We'd just be throwing away our best shot at a slam since 2018 for nothing.
Carberry has not been given a good run.
That's 7 of Ireland's last 15 games. All games Carbery has started since he came back from his long term injury early in 2021. Not to mention the starts he had pre-Farrell. And the fact that he's been Munster's undisputed starting 10 in that time period regardless of his form and bar a couple of good games, has been very average. How many "chances" does he need to get before people are satisfied? The argument that he "hasn't been given a good run" is utter rubbish. He's been given far more opportunity than he frankly deserves, and rarely shown anything other than mediocrity. He wouldn't start for any tier one nation and probably wouldn't make the 23 either.
Some of us actually want Ireland to win some trophies. And by giving Carbery the whole 6N, you just reduce our chances of that substantially, for nothing. If he shows some form for Munster, I'd be open to him maybe starting v Italy. But that's potentially a big banana skin game and I'm not even sure I'd trust him in that.
Answer me this. After all those starts for Munster and Ireland, is Carbery any better now than he was in mid 2021? I don't think so personally. So what's another 5 starts going to do for him?
I think Jack is onto something. Sit Sexton for the 6nations and give zoolander a chance. God knows he needs the chance! Have Crowley on the bench. Sexton at 37 is probably on the decline and even though he's far better than all the other 10's, there's nothing to be learned from playing Sexton. Carberry has not been given a good run. It's time to see what he's got. Carberry can only improve. His starting point is not very high so, a little game time and he could step up! If he doesn't then there's young Crowley. It's a win win.
It's a real pity that Jack McGrath's hip problems seem to have robbed him of his career. A fit and healthy Lions test loosehead would be ideal to have albeit Cian Healy still more than holding his own.
Ah to be fair to Jack he might not be talking about Sexton.
He might be talking about literally every other player to have ever played the game.....
If not having poor games is a stick to beat someone they had better start whacking.
I appreciate Sexton is a great player when he is on song, but he has a lot of games where is is average to poor,
Such as?
As in Doak to supplant Murray akin to his supplanting of TO'L?
I think they will definitely bring 2 SH and 3 OH
If Connors gets back to where he was it's not a big drop off from VDF. After that it drops a bit but Timoney is looking good.
Agree with a few above that 10 is the biggest drop if Sexton is out. 1 and 3 next but Bealham is definitely easing the earlier worries at 3.
The back line looks a different animal when Lowe is there and firing but we've plenty of options when he's out.
Yep because average to poor performing players get nominated for WPOTY all the time. Drivel.
You'd wonder as well if the likelihood is that we'll bring 2 scrum-halves to the RWC; at the moment that seems like JGP and Murray, but Casey is obviously a more like-for-like replacement for JGP.
It could be a big season for Casey, and I think, akin to 2011, it's possible we could see a bit of a surprise selection.
Sextons all time stats for kicking is 79% for Ireland and 91% for leinster... According to statbunker
There are very few teams that can say that. And I doubt Ireland is one of them!
The backups for these positions would have a significant impact on the quality and cohesion:
1,3, 9, 10, 11 (arguable ok) and 15 - I suppose we should include the World Player of the Year...and Beirne....and Dorris!
9 RWC’s and 6 have been won by a team that only had to make a max of 1 change to their XV
It’s fair to say Ireland will not be winning a WC relying on their backup players to start a WC KO round.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
'19 SA started the same XV in their KO games
'15 NZ started the same XV in their KO games except LH
'11 NZ started the same XV in their KO games except LW AND 10
'07 SA started the same XV in their KO games except TH
'03 Eng changed 15, 14, 12, & 1 in their KO games
'99 Aus started the same XV in their KO games except No.8
'95 SA changed 14, 12, 10, 8 & 5 in their KO games
'91 Aus started the same XV in their KO games except No.7
’87 NZ started the same XV in their KO games except No.7
VDF is probably a vital player as well really. Best player in the world currently and even though we've some good open sides knocking about, bone are on his level.
It's a similar story with Doris. We've a lot of good number 8's in Ireland, but his performances over the last 12 months are head and shoulders above anyone else.
Watching Ireland in this Autumn series it was evident that we have the best back-line plays in World Rugby right now. I didn't see any other team come close to the level of detail the Irish team are exhibiting on a regular basis.
Puzzled a bit at this take - while the backs looked great in NZ, I would say probably our biggest weakness in the Autumn was our shape and cohesiveness in attack. Part of that against Australia was the late disruptions to the team etc, and another big factor IMO is the absence of Henshaw.
Our best try of the Autumn series, Mack Hansen's effort against SA, came from broken play. It was very well executed, with multiple players (forwards and backs) showing some lovely handling, but wasn't a structured or detailed play.
I haven't kept a log, just noticed it. What's his kicking % like recently, my impression has been that he's missed a lot of shots at goal lately.
And from here on until next September you can guarantee he will be under the microscope with Andy Farrell.
We'll see how he bounces back from his current injury.
Personally I wish he will return in top form and continue on to the RWC that way, but let's be clear, anything less than that and other options should be used, particularly those with more pace. At 37/38 pace is one thing that will inevitably decline.
Same issue happened with Rory Best last time around. The selector should have been more ruthless at the time and selected Herring ahead of him.
I thought Carbery was very good against France away last year and if he can replicate that kind of performance I wouldn't have too many concerns.
The biggest issue with Carbery is that as much as people are concerned about the ability of a 38 year old to weather a World Cup schedule - the reality is that Carbery is a lot more prone to injury despite not being nearly as physical or abrasive as Sexton is, particularly in defence which has become a targeted weak spot for Carbery (as further evidenced by Aki at the weekend).
That's the point, any team in World Rugby that loses 5 players from their strongest lineup will struggle to perform at the same level enough to win a World Cup.
Missing 1 or 2 players should not make any difference, or at least so small a difference that it shouldn't be the deciding factor.
When you take a step back and look at our team, our strength is in our tenacity and work-rate in the pack, and the slick passing in our backs at a fast tempo.
And on top of that, we have the adaptability to play in different ways, have different players take leading roles, and our defence is cohesive and formidable, both in tackling and fielding.
I would put our team on par (if not superior) with France, England, South Africa and New Zealand in respect of those qualities.
Other teams have different strengths such as their front row or their second row or their wingers, but overall as a package Ireland are more than capable of beating any team in the world at the World Cup.
I was really impressed with Casey against Connacht and mentioned in the Munster thread that he was playing with a level of authority and control that was very promising from a young player. Being in Ireland camp can have a big impact on some players and this seems to have proved true for Casey.
I'm still mindful of Murray's performance against England in the six nations last year. We just couldn't game manage with our scrum in trouble and Murray coming on, managing the tempo and territory expertly really turned that game around for us. Not sure Casey quite has that in his game yet so hopefully he gets plenty of starts in Europe and Six Nations and no doubt being around Murray at Munster must be huge for his development regardless.
As for Murray against SA - I thought he had a mixed game, decision making mostly solid but execution and accuracy let him down a bit. Both teams were getting away with being offside so I think both sets of halves were under pressure - Sexton had a few wayward passes and got caught on the gainline so it wasn't just Murray.
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://w6.vanillicon.com/v2/6081e4655739e0887aaf16222f88b015.svg)
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://wd.vanillicon.com/v2/ddb508ca3281bbcc5001177dc26332a1.svg)
