Sort of, basically VW want to make money from cars they've already sold. It's a much more stable income stream because you can simply look at your number of subscribers to figure out your income. Whereas car sales go up and down (or just up if you're making EVs at the moment)
Since you can make basically anything in an EV a paid add-on, then there's a lot of options
Want a charging speed boost? Subscribe
Want digital services? Subscribe
Want better driving assistants? Subscribe
Sell the car privately? Next person needs to subscribe, and give some money to VW
The sales pitch will probably start at the lower end cars where VW can say they're making them an add-on to keep the list price lower
It also helps the higher end cars because VW can say your brand new ID.5 GTX comes with 3 years of free travel assist, charging boost, etc, etc.
I think in time they'll start rolling that back and making people pay for more, similar to what Tesla did with their cars
Essentially they're just going to find the level at which people start getting fed up and dial it back a bit from there
Btw, when I say VW there you can just sub in whatever other car manufacturer you want
VW have probably been more vocal in their ambitions (at least under Deiss, the new guy seems about as interesting as the T&C's letter from the bank) but you can bet all the other manufacturers are thinking the same thing
It's an interesting one, take the Cupra Born as an example. The Born 58kWh 204hp has a recommended on the road price of €40,820. For an extra €5,055 you can upgrade to the eBoost model with 231hp. If you wanted to spec the base the same as the eBoost you'd need to change the wheels (€746) add Tech "L" (€238), the HUD (€985), upgraded seats, (€1,303). Meaning that the extra HP is costing you €1,783.
All you are paying for with the different power is a software change on the motor, we think it's ok to charge an extra €1,800 at purchase, why wouldn't it be ok to make that a €20/month subscription?
@liamog - €20 per month is fine of course, but Mercedes is charging €1200 per year, which is €100 per month. That's simply too much, I don't think many people will take the offer.
I paid the Tesla sub over the Summer but let it lapse when on holidays, couldn't be arsed re subbing now, I'm mostly work commute as I won't be golfing around the country in this weather. I would however pay an annual discounted fee, €100 say.
The EU need to kill, or at least heavily regulate, this subscription crap at birth. Any feature present in the car when you buy it should never be able to be removed.
If you want to add things after then sure, go for it. I’m sure the German marques will be lobbying heavily for a subscription model to cover what they won’t make in servicing and parts.
This seems like very well researched article about carbon dioxide emissions of BEVs vs ICE:
It also touches the topic of particulate emissions from brakes and tyres.
I suppose the chance to dodge some VRT would also be welcome, since in theory you can buy a low spec car with a lower market value and upgrade it after purchase
I think a lot of Model S owners were doing that a while ago with the performance mode unlock?
Good god, a well researched article with multiple fact checked sources presenting a fact based opinion?
I'm guessing the author will be out of a job soon if he keeps that up 🤣
Seriously though, it's refreshing to see Irish journalists coming up with some proper articles about EVs instead of just repeating whatever the first two Google results say
I'm also extremely disappointed there were no comments on that article. The comments on the journal are so idiotic they make the boards politics forum look like a pinnacle of reasoned and we'll thought out debate 😂
Cupra (and others) are forcing you into a host of other upgrades there just to get you the extra bhp though. Clever enough on their behalf but that's life.
You're fairly clued in on Evs and the whole industry @liamog what do you think a 222 plate Cupra Born will be worth in 2024.....with about 40k kms on it. I paid 41.5k for it, Aurora Blue metallic the only option.
Happy with it as my first foray into EV ownership but already have my beady eye on something new for 2024.
I assume a new Cupra Born will be the guts of 45 to 50k by then with grants removed. Or are grants just keeping the prices high artificially?
This is essentially what to do buying any Tesla.... wait til after delivery before purchasing Enhanced Auto Pilot or Full Self Drive, as if you select them as options when you order, you pay VRT on them (as well losing out on the grant in the cheapest Model 3 RWD)
Unfortunately that's something of a roll of the dice question, at the moment depreciation of EVs is almost zero, but that won't last forever
In theory by 2024 supply should be much greater, and all the ID.3s and Borns sold in 2020-2021 will be coming off PCP and a fair number of them will be entering the 2nd hand market
So more "normal" depreciation should apply, probably around 30-40% of the cars original value
However, the demand for EVs doesn't seem to be going down and the prices for new ones is only going up for now
As you noted, the Born is more expensive now than when you bought it for essentially the same car. Even if it retains most if it's value it could be a good deal next to buying now
So I'm going to roll the dice and say between €30-32k will be the expected value in 2024
Let me know in a couple of years how I did 😁
I wonder how long it'll take revenue to "fix" that situation. What's the bet they'll take the average of the cheapest and most kitted out Model 3 SR+ and that's the market value for all Model 3 SR+ versions
In a car 2 months and I am already looking at selling!! Loads of factors I know, grants (probably gone), supply (unknown), demand (economy dependent), choice of cars and competitors and whether the manufacturers actually drop prices as R&D costs have been recovered
As much as I like it I do want to move back into bigger cars and have the A6 Etron (possibly Avant) firmly in my sights
Never too early to plan the next move, or at least consider the possibilities
Nice choice with the A6, glad to see you're getting the right version (the estate) 👍
I'm not getting anything!! Just thinking out loud.
If I was lucky enough to be able to pull off the A6 etron i think I'll be in them forever. No compromises there at all, looks like my dream car. Not a big fan of SUVs, my dad has original etron SUV and I'm meh about it, and as much as I like to look at the likes of Taycan and etron GT, buying them wouldn't be for me, bit too flash.
One of the linked sources from the article is the Emissions Analytics report which claims cars emit 5.8g per kilometre of tyre particles. Their report is often cited by "well researched" journalists. But ask yourself the simple question. Do you lose 5.8kg of tyre every 1,000km. I'm averaging about 18,000km per year.
That means I should of lost 105kg of tyre in 1 year, tyres weigh about 12kg each. I don't remember driving them so low they'd all disintegrated I was on steel rims after just 8,000km.
People used to buy cars with no radio, steel wheels and then get them put in later. It's nothing new.
The new regulations for emergency call buttons on cars mean all cars must have a built in phone with location ability so the internet connection is there in every car.
In terms of subscriptions the big losers will be those who buy 10 or 20 year old cars for peanuts but fund basic features like Android auto or apple car play disabled. Apparently apple and Android charge a once off fee to manufacturers but many now want an annual fee for it to work. Worse still some of these connectivity are included for free to first owner who probably has bundles of cash but pay to use for later owners including cash strapped 10 or 15 year old car owners. Some of these optional extras are safety features such as upgrades from basic lane keeping to more advanced versions which could be the difference between life and death. It's getting like "would you like good brakes or bad brakes, enter your credit card number". Some new cars have buttons to press but they pop up a subscription screen instead of turning on heated seats. Manufacturers are only doing this to make more money, and it's the 2nd, 3rd owners that really pay as most optional packs and upgrades at purchase normally don't impact the used car price that much. Thus in the past 5k of options might result in a 500 euro premium on the used car. Now the option costs the same at 5 years or 15 years of age, no depreciation in the subscription, probably inflation in the annual cost. If you bypass the software lock have you committed a crime, if so do you actually own the car you bought?
I bought a heated aftermarket seat cover for 20 euro. These may get more popular in time.
That would explain the trail of sparks when you're driving around 🤣
I agree that claim seems fairly dubious but I wonder if a fair amount of particulate detected was kicked off the road surface as the car drives over and disturbs it
Of course if that's the case then the authors of the report might go on to consider how the particulates got there in the first place (ahem, diesel, ahem) 😁
Model 3 Long Range.
Sports Boost was available after purchase.
Acceleration boost. €1.8k reduces 0-60mph from 4.4s to 3.9
I haven’t seen this before, where a specific bay at a hub is painted for disabled drivers. It’s in France (Normandy) and becoming more common there so might arrive here at some point in the future.
Is the site in Dundrum still the only one here?
Newly opened health centre in Enniscorthy has disabled charging spaces.
Hi all,
I've a Passat GTE that with my commute, I've brimmed the tank 3 times since February. A full EV is long way off being spreadsheetably sensible, but I'm wondering is there any value left in importing a NI registered EV, and whether it's still possible to find one which escapes the post-Brexit customs and VAT.
Skoda, Kia or Hyundai is what I'd be interested in.
I know this is covered to death on the forum, but I'm hurtling towards a stage in life where I'm getting bogged down with information overload! So I figured I'd ask the people in the know. Thanks.
I wouldn't bother @bbk. Second hand EV prices in the UK are higher than they are here these days. The country is a bit ahead of us, people are more aware that EVs are coming, so demand is higher. With similar limited supply that means second hand prices are high.
Considering petrol is currently way cheaper than diesel anf you’ve only bought 3 tankfuls of petrol in 6 months, I’d suggest you stick with the GTE if it’s in good shape.
Thanks for the reply, I didn't realise that but it makes sense.
Is that NI customs and vat avoidance still stand for NI cars between a certain year and ownership criteria?
I know I'm a long long way from it being worth doing considering how well a Phev is working for me. I saw a 2020 Audi Etron for 40k Gbp which seems a lot less than new. More curious than anything. Thanks.
This is Johnstown estate. 2 Tesla chargers, one Bay marked disabled. As they are tethered chargers it more difficult to park in the space on the left and stretch the charging cable to reach.
I'm terms of bringing in NI cars, yes it can be done. As the charger infrastructure is so bad in NI some people give up on fairly new EVs so you might get a bargain. As others have said your fuel savings may be negligible. You need to be 100% sure your import will satisfy all the criteria such as first bought in NI, and factor in the taxes and hassle.
With only 2 charging bays and having one set to disabled I could see leading to some moral dilemmas for people.... One bay is occupied and your SOC is 2%, do you wait for the occupied space to become free or use the disabled space? you could use the disabled space and wait in the car and relinquish the disabled space should a disabled driver need it.
Well the bay is marked as disabled parking, not disabled charging, at least based on the satellite view.
So it implies that a disabled person could park there even if they don't need to charge (which is a bit of a dilemma itself)
If that's the case, then I don't think you'd be okay to park up for a quick charge, because it should be kept free for disabled parking.
It's a slow charger anyway, so there probably won't be many stopping on for a quick charge anyway
You might be okay if you sat beside the car, but you'd realistically be standing there for over an hour
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