The DUP refusing to let Sinn Fein have First Minister means a December Assembly Election. Will the numbers change in a fresh Election?
What parties seats are vulnerable or who might make gains in any constituencies ??
I'd be the first to condemn SF for something but the DUP not taking their seats in Stormont is not the same as when SF did it.
The DUP helped create this situation which was brought about by Westminster. Stormont cannot do anything about it. So what the DUP are doing is punishing one house for the actions of (effectvely) a higher house. However, the DUP are satisfied to continue as normal in that higher house and are not holding the same protest.
In addition, the problem is not the agreement. The problem is that some politicians in NI were happy to proceed with brexit against the wishes of the majority there knowing that Brexit was going to create difficulties one way or the other with the EU in terms of the land border. The agreement is what the UK government put forward as a solution after the DUP rejected everything else (some of which would probably have had less impact on NI).
So.. it still suits the DUP from a political strategy point of view. They lost seats in the last Assembly elections and want to get back the first minister position. When SF pulled out previously, it suited them as well. There's a pair of them in it. For the citizens of NI, it's like having two monkeys on yer back, wrangling all the time and trying to throw the other off.
Parties 'walk' from government ALL the time.
What they don't do is hold people to ransom to try to get concessions those people cannot give.
There is no equivalence here, no matter how much you want to obliquely support DUP belligerence.
P.S. Reviews of agreements are always welcome. The GFA has been added to several times and yet still is not fully implemented.
What's the state of play right now, I think the decision on a date for election has been postponed to middle of Dec, and if still no agreement on a date by then it will be postponed into late January, with the possibility of then setting a date of after April?
Something is very wrong with the process, citizens are being left in limbo, anyone waiting for change has to grin and bear it.
I think the election results will be a hammering for the DUP at this stage. They are going to be wiped out.
They either have the right not to take their seats, or they don't.
Arguing over the merits of their reasons is a completely different thing. I believe neither SF nor the DUP have been right to block the Stormont Assembly. I also believe that the right of the SF and DUP children to behave in that manner should be removed by the adults in government in Dublin and London.
Absolutely it is time. Removing the requirement for designation and letting Stormont become a normal parliament gives the balance of power to parties like Alliance, SDLP and the Greens.
You won't argue over the merits because like the JBritish you feel the need to shore up belligerent Unionism in order to try and stall the inevitable.
You don't have the right to hold people to ransom over something they can do nothing about. Discuss.
Risible nonsense.
I have clearly said that both the DUP and SF are wrong to have brought down Stormont. Which bit of that don't you understand?
All I am doing is pointing out the huge hypocritical holes in your argument, and you resort to strawman attacks on me.
It's quite evident you dispise the GFA and parity of esteem gauranteed under it
Your not comparing like for like,SF collapsed it for Irish language act,among other basic progressive legislation....and had a deal with Arlene foster and the DUP leadership's to have it up and running within 100 days
DUP are collapsing it,as their vote was split and cost em seats,and simply don't want a Catholic first minister,and is using opposition to legislation a government it was part of agreed to,as a Trojan horse to impose it's long term sectarian stragedy on NI
You have clearly demonstrated your need (we know why) to make sure that everything the DUP do is the same as SF do.
Which is evidently not true.
You resist evidencing this when asked what rights SF are blocking and refusing to see the difference between abstaining on something the devolved government can fix and something it can't.
From someone who is unable to distinguish between the old IRA, PIRA and new IRA, the accusation of not comparing like with like runs more than a little hollow.
I have said already that both SF and the DUP were wrong to collapse Stormont. At one level, when you look at the issue and the length of time, it could be argued that SF were worse, but to me both were wrong.
You can't see the difference between the PIRA and the old IRA, so it is more than a bit rich to accuse others of not seeing a difference. You also can't see the difference between the Northern Irish identity and Kerry which says even more about an inability to discern difference.
What?
Complete non-sequiter to the post it quotes.....if you don't understand the subject matter and just wish to rant,that's ok like,perhaps you should outline this
My own opinion is that they simply don't want to feel as if they're playing second fiddle to a Taig First Minister. They're using the protocol as their excuse and if it wasn't the protocol they'd be blaming something else. I don't think the DUP are intelligent enough to hold a coherent political strategy aside from doing the polar opposite to SF. If they had the intelligence that you appear to give them credit for, they wouldn't have followed the path they have taken over the last six years.
However, it is most unfortunate that the DUP's intransigence on this is effectively suported by an incompetent and disingenuous government in London who don't want NI making their their Brexit crapfest make them look bad. It is a lot easier to point at the EU and say that it's all their fault.
I'm not disputing that they have a right to do it; I am disputing that it is democratic to collapse functioning democratic institutions in protest at something not done by those institutions, and over which those institutions have no control.
At a minimum, if DUP MPs do not with draw from the Westminster institutions which imposed the Protoocl on them, their claim that withdrawing from entirely different institutions is a form of protest against the actions of the institutions they continue to participate in is hard to take seriously.
It is blatantly undemocratic but it can’t be admitted here.
Heaton-Harris is now threatening the thing that has got Stormont going before - get back in there or there'll be water charges.
So you are implying that the dup are under an obligation to sit in an executive no matter what?
No, throwing their toys out of the pram the second they lose first minister is a far better look.
The polls are saying the opposite. Dup will gain - provided they stay out
What utter nonsense.
what had an Irish language act have to do with the dup?
Dup have stated the will serve with a sf first minister / something the main parties in the south won’t say.
the only Trojan horse is the equality Trojan horse that Gerry says sf will use to break the Protestant bastards
Will sf issues of this week affect their vote in next election? I actually doubt it - which is amazing from where I am looking
They were blocking it using the PoC when a majority of MLA's were in favour of it.
Can you say "false dichotomy"? No, I'm not implying that at all. The fact that you need to characterise my position in this way is revealing.
So let me try to understanding your hypocrisy.
the dup were operating the rules of the institution democratically to delay a discriminatory ILA. You say sf had the right to opt out of the institutions resulting in them collapsing for 3 years.
the protocol is being forced upon the unionist community and the dup do not have the right to opt out of the institutions even though their electorate are saying very clearly ‘we want you to stay out’
have I got that correct?
So help me then.
mare you saying that there are circumstances when they do have the right to abstain - but only if republicans agree with the cause?
Again, no. You keep attributing views to me which I have not expressed.
I have said is that the reason for the DUP's current withdrawal from the institutions does not provide a democratic justification (and I have explained why and you haven't taken issue with anything I said about that).
I haven't said anything about hypothetical withdrawals by the DUP for hypothetical different reasons. Obviously, a different reason for withdrawal could be democratically respectable, and whether it was or not need not depend on whether republicans agreed with it. Where have I ever suggested that it would?
Here is what is wrong with your point.
The DUP used the PcC in a way it wasn't designed for. I.E. Undemocratically. That is, they were blocking rights in a way that halted the GFA and it's ancillary agreements.
The Executive could fix that at the stroke of a pen or a raising of an arm. The DUP undemocratically would not allow that.
The DUP refused every deal on the table in relation to the WA. When the UK proposed the Protocol they backed it and supported it, the UK agreed the Protocol and the late Queen signed it into law. Then for some reason they changed their mind (many say, because a SF First Minister looked imminent) and rejected it and lied about it's effects.
The Executive have no power whatsoever to change the agreement between the UK and the EU but they brought it down and proceeded to use that as a ransom. Completely undemocratically, as the Executive have NO power to change the agreement.
Tell us a little more about this
“The DUP used the PcC in a way it wasn't designed for. I.E. Undemocratically. That is, they were blocking rights in a way that halted the GFA and it's ancillary agreements.”
could you show me where the gfa agreed to an ILA??
….and maybe while you are at it, tell us what you think the PcC is for (and not for), ? makes no sense to me what you are saying
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