There's people critical of Russian behaviour (fine with that), then there's others exhibiting borderline if not actual xenophobia as a response. That should be called out IMO.
What did they do to get Hungary onside?
Ukraine already are striking russian towns and cities in Kursk and Belgorod. And have been hitting Donetsk and Horlivka for months now too.
It doesnt make sense for them to try and level cities in Russia or occupied Ukraine because they are fighting a war and cant afford to be wasting ammunition on acts of terror that will ultimately see them reap what they sow tenfold as the russian missile arsenal is just far bigger than anything ukraine can amass. Or are we still convinced they are running out of missiles in 2 more weeks?
This is what Obama said,
"But the president has signaled privately that despite all the pressure, he remains reluctant to send arms. In part, he has told aides and visitors that arming the Ukrainians would encourage the notion that they could actually defeat the far more powerful Russians, and so it would potentially draw a more forceful response from Moscow.".
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/us/politics/obama-said-to-resist-growing-pressure-from-all-sides-to-arm-ukraine.html
Then Trump was elected and he armed Ukraine (https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/obama-trump-biden-ukraine-military-aid-1.6371378) and the outcome has been more or less as Obama feared.
If a friend said he was going to go down the road and attack the local drug dealers because he didn't like them, I might discuss the likely outcomes with him and better ways to proceed.
There's very little we can say to Russia. They seem to view Bandera as a Nazi and Ukranian's who support him as Nazi's (support for Bandera has risen dramatically probably because of Putin).
Russia are the drug dealers in the analogy. Who's going to go down the road and advise the local drug dealers on how to do business ethically?
How many Ukranian's have died? Miley says 100,000 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63580372). What has the war achieved for them? There were things Ukraine could have done to mitigate the risk of war, like not increasing ceasefire violations by a factor of 40 prior to the war or giving ethnic Russian's the same rights as ethnic Ukranian's (https://www.france24.com/en/20180920-ukraine-region-ban-russian-culture-sparks-controversy). During the war Ukraine could have taken the no to NATO deal in April which could have been revoked later like the loyalty to the queen promise in Ireland.
What is the point of advising Russia that won't listen. You advice your friends. My advise to Ukraine would be to look for ways to deescalate and the same for the European countries.
No, not what you originally said. You said your position was to callout what you "consider unacceptable methods of warfare". Not calling out others calling out. Stop shifting the goalposts.
So just Mick, Claire and the Hungarians then.
A welcome gesture, but at the end of the day thats all it is - a gesture.
What "international conequences" will Russia face that they havent already?
What's your point? I'll call out both (methods of warfare & xenophobia) as I consider them both questionable.
Explanation. If we keep fighting the here we migth drive them out or make them regret every coming into Ukraine but if we attack Russia, they will most likely use non-nuclear weapons that can destroy entire cities.
I mean can everyone not see this as obvious or am i completely deluded?
Mayor of Kyiv confirms missile strike at one of the infrastructure objects in the city
Sounds like your winding people up with the handful of posts you have in here,
Entitled to my point of view, just like you are.
Trump sent a few javelin missiles with strict conditions that they couldn't be used against Russia and they were only to be seen as a deterrent,
Ukraine now has one of the largest supplies of anti tank and anti aircraft missles/manpads anywhere in the world and are beating your pals on a daily basis, something if Obama did 9 years ago Russia wouldn't have invaded ukraine again
I vaguely remember something said about the traditional rough treatment of russian conscripts as "beat your own to frighten others".
Unfortunately yeah,
But the winding up of others is pretty obvious, we've seen and heard it all from day one ,
It's like whenever people come along with the good oul America did this and America did that speeches,Iraq and Afghanistan,
Like we don't already know all of the fact's but yet they still pop up playing I'm so offended posts
Did Anyone see the report last week I believe that Poland was buying 200 HiMars units from the US on top of Apache gunships, Abrams tanks,F16s and F35 jets ,at the current rate Poland will be the one of the most powerful militaries in Europe if not NATO
Do you not think that wanting to watch Moscow burn and that they all deserve it is the kind of rhetoric (and callousness) that probably should be called out though?
it’s not helpful and it’s reducing the war to little more than a blood sport.
Yes it is.
But as I've already said the following: "But then again they live under the yoke of an authoritarian regime that has total control of the media and bloodily cracks down on dissent", so I don't know why you are trying to paint me as pro their method of governance. It's an appalling system. I've also called for regime change in Russia in a previous post. Did you miss that?
it is the same tediousness MO from certain posters anytime they are even vaguely contradicted though.
”oh here comes the Russian trolls”
tediois beyond belief and just a way to deflect having to countenance any different viewpoint. Maybe sometimes some introspection is required instead.
Gatling, why don't you just cut to the chase and admit that you're ok with indiscriminate bombing of Russian cities as a response to what the Russians are doing. It would save a load of time.
It's pathetic to be honest. If you want to witness a "four legs good, two legs bad" level of argument, this thread is dripping with it.
Never said anything about indiscriminate bombing of any city ,
I did day Moscow needs to burn but there is plenty of legimate military targets that can be hit along with other infrastructure that would limit civilian casualties but send a message you hit us and we will hit back harder,
It's not really working out for ya
Blackout in Moldova after Russian missile strikes in Ukraine
another country affected by the war to end all wars
Your not a 4 year old in preschool,your well aware what a war is and what Warfare entails,
Trying to be religious about it ,oh well I believe in peace but it's ok if Russia bomb's Ukraine, but as long as the Ukrainians don't hit back I'm ok with the current situation.
My advise to Ukraine would be to look for ways to deescalate and the same for the European countries.
That is what Ukrainians are doing already. I'll explain to you in simple words. The war is continuing because Russians are behaving badly in Ukraine, m'okay? To deescalate, Russians need to be persuaded to leave all Ukrainian lands and to stop sending rockets. The fastest persuasion tactic is to make them leave by force, and apparently it works! Russians are retreating, so probably they are getting the hint that they are not welcome.
"but there is plenty of legimate military targets that can be hit".
Yeah, nowt wrong with that at face value. But deep inside Russia though?
"other infrastructure"
Such as?
"you hit us and we will hit back harder".
Couldn't that ultimately escalate to indiscriminate attacks (and yes I know the Russians are doing that already) that you don't seem to want??
And you well know yourself that wanting to watch a city burn does not mean wanting to hit legitimate military targets within the city so don’t play coy.
Also please find a single instance of anytime I said Russian bombing was ok. You seem to only deal in caricatures of real life.
Wanting to watch a city burn .
Been watching it happen in Ukraine for the last 9 months,
But yet here we are poor russians shouldn't feel the actions of their own war .
Nice word play though
"Couldn't that ultimately escalate to indiscriminate attacks "
You mean like the daily indiscriminate attacks on ukraine for the last 270+ days and nights..... (273)
Imagine that
"if we attack Russia, they will most likely use non-nuclear weapons that can destroy entire cities."
And what incredible, powerful Russian weapons would these be? Are they from the super-secret, ultra-modern part of the Russian military that is being held back? Because the benevolent Russians don't want to completely destroy Ukraine?
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