The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously; 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously; additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations; upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW, and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.
Few holes in that comparison but it does mean that in January that 400km trip on fast chargers alone would cost about €20, coupled with the hassle of finding a charger V finding a filling station
Interestingly €38 would get you about 60kWh on fast chargers, if that's to do 400km, are many cars capable of 15kWh/100km?
Very frustrating but I guess it does give some guarantee on prices, even if it is only for a matter of weeks at a time
With that being said the Ecars increase happens on the 20th of December, According to that article prices have been coming down since September would prices from August be kicking in in December?
Exactly. Wholesale prices rose 12 months before we even saw increases. Supply companies generally hedge future prices. The ones that didnt just went bust
Provision of transport fuel, be it diesel, petrol, LPG, CNG, Electricity or dare I say it, H2 for fool cells, should not be done by the state.
Price of supply is locked in for a period of time.
So electricity you are using today was bought in at a price set some time ago.
You won't see the reduced price until future supply bought at reduced price comes through from supplier.
Its frustrating
Idiot
Interesting news from RTE
The price of electricity on the wholesale market is now cheaper than at any time over the past 12 months and is 37% cheaper than October 2021.
Makes you wonder what the justification is for our current prices
Careful now, you'll upset the Red guy
Credit to bonkers for some actual analysis of the public charging price increases
They gave examples of a trip from Dublin to Galway with home charging + a top up at Ecars (€15), an Ecars only example (€38) and a diesel comparison (€40)
I didn't fact check their figures but it looks about right
Much better to show a true example of charging costs rather than just assume everyone uses DC chargers all the time
Why wouldn't you want diversity in the types of plans on offer and locations available. At the end of the day selling power via a DC charger is easy. It's the locations and tariffs that are complex and are a fair place to allow market competition to decide the best way forward.
Well you can bring it with you on the first (insert your cars real world range here) km of any drive you ever go on where you start from home….
I’ve a 400km round trip down to family in Waterford and the first 250km of that is covered by my home charging rate, so I’m only concerned about the 150km I need to put in out in the wild..
Like the argument against privatisation of our domestic electricity network back in the 2000's... If we had a reliable cheap state run provider we wouldn't need private market entrants. Key word - Reliable
No ted I don't as I can't bring my home charging rate with me when I'm on the road
Do you not see the flaw in your logic
The fuel (ice fuel) subsidy is even more ridiculous IMO lets not go there
In an ideal world, youre right, you should be able to rely on public charging. This is what happens in Netherlands for instance. But if you have a cheap state run monopoly, what incentive is there for private market entrants?
You should be able to buy an electric car and rely solely on public charging infrastructure, I get that you can't but you should. The price increase all goes back to the privatisation of the market but we know when "wholesale" prices return to normal levels the price we pay won't
I firmly believe that public charging should be self funded, otherwise it will be abandoned.
There was no hesitation in governments all over Europe bringing down the cost of petrol and diesel earlier this year using public money, does that mean their forms of fuel should be abandoned? Nothing similar happened for EV charging prices
But during those struggles I couldnt have afforded a car, let alone a new car of any sort. I had a 15 year old ford fiesta!
The people who can buy new cars are already switching and increasing the number of people buying EVs. In 3-5 years you'll see Konas, Niros, leaf62, first Teslas etc dropping to sub 15k, and the original leaf and zoe below 5k. The day of the 500 quid car would be gone. There's always intrinsic value in an EV's battery.
Relating to the ecars price increase however, most people who can afford a new car and choose an EV, will have their own driveway. I've rented a house and owned an apartment before buying my current house and was able to charge at home in both the rented house and the apartment. I wouldnt (and didnt) buy an EV before I could charge at home. That was when AC and DC public charging was free!
Like it or not, the next step to a mature market is the removal of grants and making it BAU. Look back 10 years ago to 2012 and everyone got ten grand to buy a leaf or zoe which could only do 100km. Now we are getting evs with ranges of 400-500km plus in the real world. Even with 20-25k, you can buy a car with 400km range.
Congrats on the improvement in your life and sorry for assuming you were a silver-spooner. My point is that those struggles you had are the same struggles being felt by a lot of our population right now, do you not care?
Not sure what you're referring to exactly?
Yes. Because this is a thread about esb ecars. I also ignored Tesla, Ionity and Easygo pricing in my calculations for the same reason
Why not let the market do as it is right now. Most people who can't charge at home arent buying new cars anyway (some exceptions to this but generally). Theres a supply limitation so even if we remove all grants the market is still saturated. Dealers are selling nearly new cars 6-18mo for more than they cost new. That's not a market that needs any help to grow.
I certainly don't think any incentives are needed for pricing. Public charging should always be 1.2X the day price for home electricity anyway
It may well be cheaper to charge at home vs diesel.
But what action needs to be taken to allow those who can't charge at home to transition to EVs cost effectively.
Also to compensate high mileage drivers for time and cost of charging EVs on the road.
"Charge at home" is all lovely but reinforces perception amongst ICE drivers that EVs aren't fully usable cars
Usual sloppy writeups
To be fair the article is accurate. Its rare to see journalists getting their kW's and kWh's and facts and figures all correct. I don't think there is anything factually incorrect in there?
It does, however, suspiciously not give any worked examples of what it costs at home on night rate which makes it a biased article. One small reference to it was given...
"(It’s worth pointing out that night rate charging, if your supplier offers it, will reduce that cost by quite a bit.)"
He gave loads of worked examples but decided not to show a worked example for the majority of people who own an EV! 😏
e.g. For myself, I pay 7.9c/kWh at night so his example would cost me €1.34/100km versus his ~€7 example. Now that is a massive saving, but that doesn't make for a good click bait article! :)
Yes it did indeed make sense for years. But times change, this isnt 2012 with 30k asking prices (post grant!) for 100km range cars. The market is supply limited and not demand limited. In a supply constrained market, purchase subsidies make no sense.
Plenty of folks are unfortunately paying that and more. One of the best rates for a day/night meter currently available is Energia's EV tariff with 44c day and 12c night.
A lot of bad tariffs are in the 50's, especially for smart meters but even on MCC01.
From the article
Of course, according to the statistics, the majority of EV drivers do almost all of their charging at home, but Electric Ireland’s standard rate for home electricity supply now stands at 40.89c per kWh — meaning that it would cost you €28 to charge your ID.4 up from ten per cent battery to full, overnight.
I don't know anyone that is paying the full standard rate for home electricity, even on with a standard meter.
Compares the vanishing cost saving on EVs, even manages to diminish the saving at home.
In fairness it made sense for years. And encouraged the development of RES.
Been a proponent of an AC Nightsaver Club to make the most of renewable electricity as night is generally when generation has lowest CO2 emissions rates. Infrastructure not in place. Existing AC units were set up to be semi fast and the labour involved to retrofit their locations to 4+ plugs would be astronomical. Incentivising apartments and other MUDs is better solution as that's where most people's cars will be at night anyway.
For AC yes, and for 50kW maybe
Not sure about HPCs at motorway services, drivers don't really pick and choose when to arrive there
Pricing will be based on the margin between commercial rates and the premium you can charge for EV usage. We've expensive prices across the board at the moment because the commercial rates are so high. Competition isn't the problem, it's the failed electricity market that is forcing low-cost providers (e.g., wind) to be paid huge rates due to concept of last kWh pricing.
Yes. If done right it could be great but instead it's done pathetically. Typical Irish nonsense.
It wasnt a 12k drop though. It was a drop of 7k by the manufacturer, with the taxpayer funding the rest. Now, I dont think it was needed personally as there is so much demand pent up but obviously Tesla has more data and insight into their pricing than I have available to me!
