I don't know. I think the US and Poland are being a little too quick in trying to kill this story.
I see no reason why the Ukrainian claims shouldn't be given the credence they deserve.
For several reasons. The main one being they do claim to have evidence and actual data themselves that contradict the defensive missile scenario.
Also I'm sure I am not the only one who found the response to them wanting access to the site a tad bit strange.
Listening to Zelenskyy last night in his nightly address it would appear the data exchange they want hasn't happened, and no access to the site has yet been granted.
It's all a little strange.
Anyway all this gets away from the relentless attack on civilian infrastructure in Ukraine, designed to create a humanitarian crisis and drive more refugees to the EU.
We may give up on the UN to stop this, they've shown themselves to be useless in this conflict. But what can the EU, Allies, NATO etc do to stop this use of missiles? Is there not sufficient justification there now in terms of threat to both NATO states in terms of refugees and the crass disregard for civilians to intervene and tell Russia that enough is enough and that agreed airspaces will be defended from now on. Defended is the key word, the onus will then be on Russia if they choose to further engage in this way.
I don't know.
Then why aren't NATO saying that is what likely happened? I mean, if we're discussing it here on Boards, it's hardly news to them.
Both airports are military.
What about the information is not credible ?
The list of targets would be split and sent to various launch crews. At some point they would be entered into the missile programming system. At some point Long and Lat were swapped. Human mistakes like this have happened before.
To me it seems the most likely answer.
As someone who occasionally deals in co-ordinate systems and there are many different systems and projections, the cockup theory is entirely believable where any manual input of figures is involved. I've seen many examples of rogue data, even the omission of a simple +/-
Target 53.42797607873251, -7.929273201583614 and your missile hits Athlone. Target 53.42797607873251, 7.929273201583614 and oops, you blow up some poor suckers near Friedeburg in Germany.
Says Mr
"there's a coup in China",
"Belarus is entering the war!",
"Putin has only two weeks to live...erm, no,I mean Russia only has enough ammo for the next 2 weeks"
I certainly take your point about Ukraine being blameless. My "off the hook" turn of phrase was meant in the most general sense, not intending to apportion culpability. They wouldn't be firing any missiles if Russia wasn't trying to destroy them, and it is certainly great to see the unilateral support Ukraine are getting from its allies on this matter.
Explosions were reported in Belgorod
Belgorod must be in bits
Ukraine are not on any hook.
They are blameless. Reiterated by Poland, NATO, USA and everyone else.
Although the UK appear not to have announced a formal decision on what happened, or even mild speculation. AFAIK.
They is no logical explanation that I can think of why Zelenskyy would double down on it.
The coordinates thing is freaky, but I imagine just one of those things.
Mystical meg's haven't predicted anything that has come remotely true .
Another round of support and supplies for winter coming from yesterday's meeting in Rammstein airbase .
So much for losing support
But if it was credible, NATO would gladly use it. It would be a gift to them, Poland and Ukraine. It would both gets Ukraine off the hook and makes Russia look incompetent but not deliberately attacking a NATO ally (which means they wouldn't have to invoke Article 5, but would be able to justify some further actions). It would be the absolutely perfect outcome for NATO, Poland and Ukraine.
And yet they're not claiming it. In fact, they're saying it's a Ukrainian missile, which is possibly the worst outcome for all involved.
You could still argue that Ukraine is getting just enough weapons to wear down Russia without delivering outright defeat. It's not a conspiracy theory, it's a perspective that remains open to debate, I can see both sides, and Zelensky himself made the very same point at the time (if you need a link, let me know).
As for incorrect predictions, you yourself are king of them and I'd only have to go back 7 days, not 7 months to find examples.
Along 23° 55′ 19″ E in Lviv you find an airport.
Along 50° 28′ 28″ N in Kyiv you find an airport.
The polish farm is at 50° 28′ 28″ N, 23° 55′ 19″ E
The mixed coordinates theory looks credible.
Then it must be a Ukrainian AA missile, as NATO have stated.
This crap again lol
If this is infact the case, then why are NATO definitively saying its a Ukrainian AA missile?
Are NATO bottling it and too afraid to hold Russia accountable?
And the gross underestimation of Ukraine continues.
You'd think certain people would have learned by now.
🤷♂️
I think that you are correct.
would the oligarchs not have someone chill put it in to appease the west so they can get their cash back and live their lives of luxury around the globe peacefully ?
Head of Pentagon also come out today and said despite its successes Ukraine is a long way from outright military victory and taking back Crimea. Hard as it is to stomach, I am certain this war will end in a messy, uneasy negotiated settlement and the fantasies some still have of pre 2014-borders and outright defeat for the Russian criminals is just not going to happen unless there is a total collapse of the Russian regime, with no prospect of that in sight.
The Korea comparison is probably therefore quite legitimate.
Yea, and I assume that you would agree that Ru just, just,just, just about edges it with regards to the indiscriminate use of missiles. I think that Ru had to rely on its last barrage of projectiles throughout Ukr to achieve that edge!!!!
How do you stop Russia/ Putin continuing ‘to make trouble in the world’. CLOSE DOWN their embassies for starters - now that the IRON CURTAIN , to all intents and purposes, is in place
Do try to keep up, you forgot two obligatory adjectives as demanded by the Ministry of Truth. Its gay, jewish, nazi, satanists.
Anyone out there who thinks that Putin when on his Special Mission in Ukr to stop it from joining NATO and for nothing else , then I suggest you read the first 140 odd pages of ‘Putin’s People’. If the book is to be believed then Russia has , for a long, long time, been trying to destabilise every country it can in the western /democratic world at every opportunity and the KGB/its replacement - and I assume their embassies are in the thick of it.
so the pro Ukr countries should close their Ru embassies - put some other arrangement in place if required- because they are the basis for seeing what’s going on on the ground and ‘act’ accordingly
we, in Ireland, can begin the process by Mi. Martin having ‘ good’ news for the Ru ambassador today
What part of Ukr? . The occupied or unoccupied part. Or maybe produce a map as some parts of The Ukr landscape - claim wise is changing by the day
ABSOLUTLY 100% out of the question. WHY? Because a site examination and loads of information from the ‘ eyes in the sky’ would tell us cohere it came from , it’s trajectory and physical info from the attacked site of the missile used.
Not enough damage to the vehicle?
I just saw a very convincing theory.
Missile coordinates of targets were sent by Russia to the missile teams. Somewhere along the line of communications the coordinates of 2 targets, one in Lviv and another in Kyiv were mixed up (lat from one and long from the other).
If you do this you get the position of the small polish farm.
I tried this and it does seem correct, seems a big coincidence !
Edit: Just followed the twitter link above and see that this information was already posted - apologies.
A bit odd of them to seemingly target a major interconnector between them and Poland on the same day they are desperately trying to restore power to over 10 million people. I can think of someone else who might like to take out that interconnector on the same day they are trying to take down Ukraines electricity grid.
I am aware of that, but given the distance argument being used to ascribe the Polish fragment to Ukraine, that one downed north of Kyiv could no more have been Russian than the other.
Since I think it unlikely that the intact one is a Ukrainian S-300 missile shot down by Ukraine, then it's likely Russian, in which case the similarity in nozzle components leads me to think perhaps Ukraine should be allowed to inspect the debris.
It's as if you were accused of being in a traffic accident with someone and they ask you to pay for the accident you don't recall having and so you ask to see the photos of the accident scene they say they took that shows your car, and they say no, along with not letting you see the damage to their car or the repair quotes.
Maybe I'm strange, but I'd want a bit more than that before accepting responsibility and coughing up.
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://we.vanillicon.com/v2/e050b53be62f0ae2404c620976170938.svg)
