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Little changes we can make to normalise cycling and encourage its uptake

b v

Mine would be:

Encouragement and promotion from an early age and normalising it. There’s no real reason mommy has to drive a tank with a 3 piece suite to drop Fintan and Sadbh to school. What’s wrong with a cargo bike with child seats? Older kids (ie, 9 and older) could cycle themselves. Growing up my cousin, my sister and I were walked to school by my mam or aunty and we walked ourselves as we got older, when I was 9 I started cycling myself. I’m 31 now.

Allow helmet cam footage to be more expeditiously used to call bad driving to task.

A reasonable expectation that your bike will still be there and not vandalised when you return.

Enforce misuse of bus lanes and bike lanes unmercifully - zero tolerance.

Encourage large supermarkets who don’t already do so to provide bike parking suitable for cargo bikes. My local has a HUGE car park with no bike parking whatsoever. A single car space could probably fit space for 5 or so cargo bikes.

Abolish VAT on cycling gear.

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crisco10

With regard to the weather, I actually think all we need to do is change the narrative around it. Dublin in particular isn't actually that wet, one thing about those stats that say it rains 150 days of the year, that may be, but does it rain at the same time each of those days? (i.e. the time you would be on your bike).

Before COVID, I was commuting 14km each way 3 or 4 days a week. And for the craic I started noting when I got really wet on my Strava activities. (really wet being I had to change clothes cos I was wet thru, have a shower etc at my destination). I didn't count light showers that my rain jacket easily handled.

In a year, I flagged about 5 commutes as very wet. Just 5. out of about 6 to 8 trips a week x 47 working weeks =~ 300 trips. That's a really low percentage of trips. Even if I was rounding down, and you doubled the number of wet trips, it's still 10 in 300.

TL:DR; it's really not as wet as you think it is. (and good gloves do a lot for the cold days!)

bladespin

Weather is no impediment to the enthusiast but it certainly does put the rest of us off, sorry but it's hardship and that's not very appealing.

I've cycled and ridden motorbikes for a substantial part of my life, I still do but it's fair weather only.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882067#Comment_119882067

Cars going through empty red lights are less dangerous than cyclists going through lights where pedestrians are trying to cross.

Seriously? Multi tonne cars doing 20-100 kmph are less dangerous than 10-20kg bikes? Did you do any physics in school?

Or did you look at the death and injury statistics to work out what kinds of vehicles are involved in death and injury collisions?

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882278#Comment_119882278

You're quite welcome to follow the link given, I'm merely using figures to disprove the assertion that the weather is comparable in Ireland to Northern Holland, Denmark, North Germany and Brussels. The figures are only broken down to regions Connacht, Leinster, Munster, Ulster or whole country likewise the regions of European countries, but I'm sure that even in junior cert geography they cover the differences between climatical regions to explain why the SE of the UK has a similar weather pattern to Europe whilst we have a weather pattern more like, well, Ireland.

Mucco

I've seen a huge uptake in cycling with the advent of e-bikes, so I'd find ways of encouraging these.

I also think a 30kph speed limit would cheaply address some of the safety concerns that would-be cyclists have.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882067#Comment_119882067

Your personal anecdotes are very interesting and amusing but facts trump barstool stories.

In 2016 1,296 cars in Dublin were recorded breaking a red light. This is 24 times the rate of cyclists caught breaking red lights (54) in the same period.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882349#Comment_119882349

Its not just the fact that you get wet when it rains, for anyone who needs to wear glasses, it severely reduces your ability to see when it's raining, add in dark nights with street lights and headlights getting bounced around by the raindrops and it's not a great experience

Don't have windscreen wipers for the eyeglasses

(similar problem with motorcyclists)

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882457#Comment_119882457

You're not reading or comprehending what's being said.

Your interpretation of the statistical data is just that, an interpretation.

As magicbastarder said there are more motorists than cyclists per capita, that's the first thing to bear in mind.

The second thing to bear in mind is that not all actions recorded statistically are equal in the nature of the act. I and others observe a lot of dangerous cycling around Dublin. Your rolling off of datasets do not disprove that for the reasons I've laid out, as the issue is beyond simple numerical totals of supposedly similar actions.

As I said in my first post, I think stopping cyclists running red lights will increase the status of cyclists on the roads because then bicycles will be considered serious road vehicles rather than oversize toys.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882352#Comment_119882352

I"m taking about bicycles hitting people or almost hitting people Vs non-incidents of nothing happening.

There is always more potential for death, all things being equal -which they aren't, the heavier the vehicle obviously.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882555#Comment_119882555

That is gas!!!!

A car driver referring to bicycles as oversized toys, when the real issue here is that too many car drivers treat their car like an oversized toy, when in fact they are driving heavy motorised lethal machines.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882577#Comment_119882577

Can you explain why it is you believe I'm a car driver? When I never indicated that.

I walk to work five days a week out of five. I don't own a car atm.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882458#Comment_119882458

it's a good thing no one in holland needs to wear glasses so. again, it rains more in amsterdam than it does in dublin.

picking a primary shoolchild at random in NL, they are something like 6 or 8 times more likely to cycle to school than a secondary school student in ireland.

in the netherlands, approx two thirds of secondary school students cycle to school; in ireland it's barely above 1 in 50.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882596#Comment_119882596

Okay that's grand. Your "oversized toys" comment is still gas and utterly ridiculous.

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882606#Comment_119882606

Not according to

https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/33845~51381/Comparison-of-the-Average-Weather-in-Dublin-and-Amsterdam#Figures-Rainfall

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882555#Comment_119882555

no-one is objecting to red lights being policed. what they're objecting to is this notion that it's particularly a cyclist issue.

i was out in the car 15 minutes ago. i saw plenty of amber and red light jumping by motorists. no cyclists this evening, but i'm not denying it happens. but how come it's cyclists people always seem to talk about doing it?

anyway, i think your argument is facile. what is stopping people from cycling is not an 'oh, i can't cycle because i see cyclists jumping reds' reaction.

i used to cycle 20km each way to get to work, three days a week; only twice in the several years of doing so was my safety threatened by a cyclist. one of them wasn't even on her bike at the time, she was walking with it; and the second was a lad off his gourd, probably on coke, screaming abuse at me. i could write a book about the number of times motorists came close to killing me though; i used to joke with my wife that if i ever failed to come home after work, she'd find my body at the junction of the rock road and booterstown avenue.

for people who cycle, this constant drum bashing of 'cyclists misbehave so we have to seriously consider how we make cycling safer' is tiring and distracting. yet here i am, reacting to it. more fool me.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882651#Comment_119882651

OK, you are possibly correct, according to the UK met office the average for amsterdam is 737mm and according to met eireann the average for dublin airport is 757mm. apparently the weather station at ringsend recorded an average of 683mm, but it's no longer listed on the met eireann site.

so let's say you're correct anyway; on average it rains one twentieth of a millimetre more per day in dublin.

or maybe i could go out on a limb and call the difference essentially indistinguishable.

People really need to stop with this absolute nonsense about cyclists breaking red lights. It is so incredibly stupid.

I'm not a cyclist, I own a bike, but cycle maybe once a year. However I do a lot of walking, for the past 4 years I've walked or run at least 10,000 steps every single day, that is over an hour of walking per day for 4 years.

I've had multiple close calls of cars blowing through red lights at junctions. I once watched a lady who had a green pedestrian crossing, yank her baby in a buggy out of cars way just in time as a car blasted through the red light! And mostly in an area with lots of schools, including a school for blind people!!!

I won't say some cyclists don't break red lights, but certainly not most and I can honestly say I have never once felt in any danger as a pedestrian from a cyclist doing so.

There simply is no comparison between the danger posed by a 12kg bike versus a 2 tonne car!

I'm not really defending red light jumping cyclists here, more pointing out the absolute hypocrisy of it. This is just a very stupid talking point by some cyclist hating motorists.

If people are serious about making our roads safer, then we should be putting red light cameras on every traffic lights, with automatic penalty points and fines issued for breaking a red light. Then we would actually be making our roads safer.

brianc89

A few factors need to be considered regarding weather.

• Rainy days per year

• Extreme temperature high days

• Snow and ice days

• Windy days

Rainy days in Dublin, at 129 days, is in line with Amsterdam (132 days) and similar to lots of European cities (90-150). For comparison, Galway has 230days.

Dublin gets no extreme heat and it's rare to see ice or snow.

Dublin is much windier than many European cities, but similar to Amsterdam, for example.

As a final point, Dublin is very flat which is a huge benefit for cyclists.

Overall, Dublin is far more favourable to cycling versus other European cities. Weather is a weak argument. Get proper gear and switch to the bus on those very wet and windy days.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882655#Comment_119882655

I gave up road cycling because it felt too dangerous to me, too many cars on the road. I'd like to see Netherlands -style lanes (as long as they aren't ripping up existing roads. Put them alongside or somewhere else).

Its only as a pedestrian that I'm speaking re cyclists jumping lights.

Anyway I agree it's only a side issue at best, I shouldn't be getting into a big debate over it.

"I gave up road cycling because it felt too dangerous to me, too many cars on the road. I'd like to see Netherlands -style lanes (as long as they aren't ripping up existing roads. Put them alongside or somewhere else)."

That is pretty much impossible. You can't just make space where it doesn't exist. Unless you are suggesting going the crazy expensive route of CPOing peoples front gardens!

Having said that the space can often be found by simply making lanes narrower or removing parking. For example on Griffith Avenue they removed various turning lanes to make space for the cycle lane and you know what, it made zero difference to the traffic IME.

And it has had the added bonus of making the road much more pleasant and safer for pedestrians. You have a cycle lane next to you, rather then cars blasting along beside you or cars trying to illegally park on the footpath. It it much more pleasant as a pedestrian now.

BTW Amsterdam got it cycling lanes, by doing exactly the same, by removing space from the road and giving it to the cyclists. In the 70's there were almsot no cycle lanes in Amsterdam, they were all created by reducing space for cars and parking.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882747#Comment_119882747

Well as long as they aren't eliminating roads altogether I should say.

Griffith Avenue is a success yes

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119878204#Comment_119878204

The way people (with massive driveways) park their cars on Lower Mounttown Rd, it's already impossible for two buses to pass each other without losing mirrors. The 46A regularly has to wait its turn behind parked cars. "Scarcely wide enough" would be a vast improvement on the current situation.

Seth Brundle

Regarding Amsterdam - where there is a will, there's a way...

https://twitter.com/BrentToderian/status/1513474697735725064?t=bYifjPe1u6CuZZsHIsK2jA&s=19

"Well as long as they aren't eliminating roads altogether I should say."

No one is suggesting that.

The weird thing about all this, is that good urban planning benefits all users, pedestrians, cyclists, public transport users and yes even motorists.

Amsterdam actually is a very pleasant city to drive in, with relatively low levels of traffic congestion. It is ranked 272'nd worst in the world, while Dublin is ranked 35th worst in the world!

It turns out that the type of good urban planning that gives you Dutch style cycle lanes, also gives you far better pedestrian and traffic infrastructure too.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882339#Comment_119882339

Pedestrians are less of a risk imo because while they cross the road and sometimes stumble onto the road, they are not continually sharing the road and more importantly, they are not capable of gently sailing off into the distance in a traffic jam without a care in the world or at least not any quicker than another person on foot.

That said, the law as it stands appears to compensate pedestrians in all circumstances where they come into contact with a car. I understand it is sensible to ensure car drivers remain aware and be prepared to stop based on what is happening on side walk etc and look out of pedestrians, I don't agree with the car driver being always at fault.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882458#Comment_119882458

My contact lenses have windscreen wipers, every time I blink

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882855#Comment_119882855

Less of a risk? Not zero risk then? Surely pedestrians need registration to cover the remaining risk?

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882576#Comment_119882576

Follow the evidence. That will tell what kills and injures pedestrians.

Its not cyclists.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882855#Comment_119882855

Whilst it may look like the driver is always at fault, this is not the case. Just the other day, a cyclist was found guilty of an incident involving a driver...

https://www.kildarenow.com/news/home/962943/kildare-man-fined-for-dangerous-cycling-after-riding-into-a-car.html

The reality is that most cases (guessing 99%) where a pedestrian is injured by a driver are avoidable if the driver is moving with more care and also travelling with less speed.

Have you an example of a pedestrian causing an incident but the driver found to be at fault (excluding any where Martin Nolan was presiding for obvious reasons)?

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882927#Comment_119882927

If I have an idiot careening towards me at 50mph on a bicycle I know who is to blame.

I'm not a petrol-head and I don't have any grudges.

Car-drivers will always be the biggest killers due to the nature of cars.