Autumn Internationals 2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119883545#Comment_119883545

Its not the results but performances, pretty much all bar the 1st home game versus NZL have been above average to mediocre.

The big difference to 4 years ago is SA were in transition then so it was acceptable, now with most of this squad playing the regular cohert its alot more concerning and continuing to say everything will be fine just because it worked out last time is delusional.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119881805#Comment_119881805

The "how" matters if you are going to use the fact you won as proof of progress in the teams ability.

e.g if you win the FA cup 5:0 because the other team scores 5 own goals then you cant really say anything about your teams performance.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119884159#Comment_119884159

I'm sorry but you actually haven't read the posts I'm quoting. For instance 'Their whole performance this season has been average ' and 'Its a thing because they are using it as a distraction from the fact they are doing an average at best job at the moment.' are in some of the posts I quoted.

I'm asking where these poor performances are that bring them down to average. I never said anybody said poor.

I've said they are in the exact same form as they were in 2018, maybe even better form. They were four points off everybodys favourites for the World Cup in a very tight game in a very difficult stadium for opposing teams to perform in.

I think they could have beaten France. They can beat France. I think they are capable of beating any team. Would they be my favourites for the World Cup, absolutely not. I think if New Zealand get rid of certain older players they'll run riot. They've got so much young talent who should be first teamers there already.

Right now it's the most open World Cup since the tournament began. If Sexton can stay healthy Ireland have a real chance to do it which would be incredible. I think South Africa have a very real chance too.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882343#Comment_119882343

What an utter delight you are. Scratch the surface and it all comes out.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882356#Comment_119882356

You seem unable to post the truth and get caught out time after time. Embarrassing.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119883493#Comment_119883493

You judge an upward trajectory by looking at what went before. You do realise that don’t you?

So in 2018 they beat NZ for the first time in 4 years. They lost by 2 points in the other game vs NZ for a combined score line of 66-66. Compare that to 2017 where they lost both games to NZ including one that ended 57-0 for a combined score of 82-24. In 2016 they lost both games by a combined score of 98-28. That looks like a clear upward trajectory to me.

In the RC they had been 3rd or 4th for a few years. In 2018 they came 2nd and then went on to come 1st in 2019. A fairly clear upward trajectory there too.

In 2018 they did poorly in the AIs, but this wasn’t unusual at that stage. The previous year we beat them 38-3. All their losses in 2018 were at least close one score games. In 2016 they lost against England by 16, Wales by 14 and Italy by 2. They didn’t win a single one of their AI games that year. There’s a clear upward trajectory there when you consider they weren’t at all competitive in 2016, struggled badly in 2017 and were there or thereabouts in 2018.

Maybe if you expanded what you were looking at to everything as opposed to just those things that support what you’re saying you might reach more reasonable conclusions. Also, maybe try not misrepresenting what people are saying. You’ve been using terms like “average” and “poor” in reference to what others are saying despite the fact that the people you are quoting are not actually saying those things at all.

fitz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882590#Comment_119882590

Yeah, that "muppet" was me. I don't detest any nationality, I've no idea where this idea came from...I said nothing of the sort in my post and it was stated by eagle eye that I despised South Africans, which I pretty clearly laughed off because it was patently ridiculous. These couple of posters are just making things up/trolling...no point engaging.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882859#Comment_119882859

Where's the bad results? They lost to Wales in the summer once in three games, lost and won against New Zealand and Australia, beat Argentina twice, lost a very close game to Ireland in Ireland and a very close game to France, everybody's World Cup favourites, in France and in Marseille of all places.

So tell me where these poor performances were? Tell me how things are any different to where they were four years ago?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882960#Comment_119882960

And as I said, this time four years ago they lost to England and Wales, struggled against a very poor French team and only beat a horrendous Scotland by six points. Where is the upward trajectory you speak of in those results?

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882773#Comment_119882773

I certainly didn’t say average. My point was that they were on a clear upward trajectory this time 4 years ago. That is not the same as where they are now. They are starting from a better place but they aren’t getting any better as it stands.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882773#Comment_119882773

You do realise when assessing a team you asses them based on a whole season rather than cherry pick their best games? Their whole performance this season has been average and a few bright sparks here or there doesn't cover that up.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119881895#Comment_119881895

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119881900#Comment_119881900

Hang on, so they lose a really tight game with France, who everybody are saying are the favourites for the WC and they are doing an average job at best?

They beat New Zealand well in the first round of the rugby championship this year too.

T-Maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119867460#Comment_119867460

This is the correct context.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882356#Comment_119882356

This is utter bullsh*t tbh. The worst thing the poster said was:

SA are the most cynical side in the world I their own 22

in this post.

Not liking a rugby team because they are cynical and saying "I detest paddies" aren't remotely the same.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882343#Comment_119882343

No, I’m not interested in talking about apartheid or dragging politics into a thread about football matches. I was simply rejecting the comparison you made about SA apartheid and the experience of Irish Travellers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882266#Comment_119882266

Maybe if u look properly when I said that I replied and quoted the person that said he detests South Africans.so unless he has delete that it should still be up.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882244#Comment_119882244

So u want to talk about apartheid from over 30th a ago,let’s then talk about discrimination (apartheid) against the whites in Sa currently?forced quota systems?but then again it’s not racist when it’s against a white person.u know fu**all about what’s going on Sa so wind ur neck in

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119881454#Comment_119881454

*That was in response to a muppet saying he detests South Africans'

Please show me where a poster wrote that?

'and yea I prob could school u on the game of rugby'

What? And with that insight into the mind of Rugbymad20207 I bid you adieu.

ersatz

I’m not interested in the Rassie debate but this comment is appalling and seriously diminishes the history that black people endured under white rule in SA. There is no comparison between a group who suffer prejudice but who have formal equality unde the law, and laws to protect them from prejudice (however insufficient) and apartheid as practiced in SA (or Palestine) where one group is formally subjugated under the law because of their race or ethnicity. You need to go back to school my friend.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119881896#Comment_119881896

That was in response to a muppet saying he detests South Africans.and yea I prob could school u on the game of rugby

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119881874#Comment_119881874

Small decisions?think u need to re look at it if u think it’s small decisions.if any of that happened in a Irish game u would all be uk in arms as u always are when things don’t go ur way.don’t try act like that doesn’t happen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119881805#Comment_119881805

It doesnt matter how you win a RWC is correct

Saying it means Rassie knows what he's doing is another statement, by that same discussion you could say Michael Cheika was a genius for Australia in 2015 yet the following 4 years showed him up big time.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119881678#Comment_119881678

Its a thing because they are using it as a distraction from the fact they are doing an average at best job at the moment.

It is but its not 2019 anymore, continuing to use the RWC in 2019 as an excuse to ignore their failings in 2022 is a recipe for disaster.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119881562#Comment_119881562

Let me get this right. A poster who wrote 'he detests paddies', or words to that effect, is trying to teach me about Apartheid.

OK.

molloyjh

In 2018 SA were at the start of an upswing in form. Most of us here were commenting on it at the time. They made the top 2 of the RC for the first time in 4 years and also beat NZ for the first time in those 4 years. In NZ. Even the one they lost vs NZ that year was a big statement from SA. It was the same day as the Leinster-Munster game in the Aviva and the game was on right before our one. And all the talk on the walk from the pub to the stadium was about how SA looked like they were back just on time for the 2019 RWC. And how typical it was given they were on our side of the draw.

SA are not in the same place now as they were in 2018 at all.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119881845#Comment_119881845

Another apples and oranges comparison - Gatland made one specific comment where he discussed the Lions' frustration with the TMO being from South Africa. That would hardly be considered a controversial viewpoint, as the principle of neutrality of referees would be pretty well established.

It's quite different from an approach where Rassie is releasing hour long or multiple videos assessing a multitude of small decisions and implying the referees are against his team.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119881652#Comment_119881652

He is not just giving his opinion. He is trying to undermine the authority of the refs. If a fan does that it makes little or no difference. When a coach for an international team does it after every single game. It’s a far more pointed action. Clearly it is now filtering down to his players. If you or I have an issue with a refs decision we have no recourse except to discuss it on social media. He has an actual pathway that he chooses not to use.

rassie did a great job resurrecting the SA team and he should be commended for that. Instead he chooses this as his legacy. It’s like a school yard bully version of Eddie Jones. All the aggression and none of the brains.

And yet when gatland bitches about refs in his tv interviews prior to playing the first lions game nobody batted a eyelid.Nh love talking themselves up all the time yet they never back it up

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119881692#Comment_119881692

u do realise u don’t win a World Cup in the group stages,plenty teams use the group stage to warm up into the comp same way certain cyclists use the beginning stage of the Tour de France to warm up.