People on here want them to surrender, agree to lose their territory currently occupied by Russia,and then be banned from ever joining the eu and Nato.
That's what some want on here ....
Russia brings into law proposals drafted in 2014. Basically going full nationalist and persecuting any foreign influences on the fatherland.
Fatherland is the approved term for Russia now.
It just goes to show how moronic and dangerous this war is. A terrible miscalculation could very well happen at any time.
They would be entitled to protect their own territory,i wouldn't be so sure about article 5 but in Polands defense they were well capable of defending themselves and they have already publicly stated they expect to be in direct conflict with Russia in the next 6-10 years,
Don't rule them out of the game
But Russia have not hit their territory, nor have they launched anything directed at their territory. So what is the pretext for them to shoot stuff down in Ukrainian airspace?
A fine gate you keep, sir. A fine gate indeed.
To protect themselves,
Whats to stop them exactly Russia crying to the UN the big bad poles are shooting down our missles
Oh you again
If Russia had not launched missiles at civilian infrastructure in western Ukraine, would a defensive missile which failed to shoot down its target have crossed into Poland?
Its a simple question, really!!
And to those who claim Zelensky was not truthful in his tweet last night. Read it again:
Nothing in there is in anyway at odds with the facts that emerged
Obviously because Russia is to blame, No russian invasion of a independent country then those 2 polish people wouldn't be dead. The only one to blame is russia.
The big Ukranian misstep here is not one of their missiles going astray in the 'fog of war', it is Zelensky in the immediate aftermath of the incident and on the basis of clearly inaccurate or incomplete intel categorically declaring it a direct Russian missile attack on Poland/NATO. In his eyes there may not be much difference between that and what appears to have actually happened but for those us who would rather avoid WW3 the distinction is rather pertinent...
Ukraine seems less than pleased, or in agreement, with this being passed off as a Ukrainian anti air missile:
I wonder why the photo that is being used to claim this was a Ukrainian S-300 came from Israel and not somewhere in Poland?
Seems a political decision has been made to come to a conclusion that doesn't necessitate a Nato response. In compensation, Sweden and the US are suddenly hugely increasing their millitary donations so it might be an idea for Zelensky to just go with the flow and not rock the boat.
Protect themselves from who?
If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. At the end of the day, it wasnt Russian missiles that hit Poland. If there was liability, it would lie with the people who launched it first, and then the weapons manufacturer (probably the USSR).
Protecting themselves from errant Russian surface to surface missiles and errant Ukrainian surface-to-air missiles. If the Poles decided to intercept Russian missiles themselves that would be less for Ukraine to have to shoot at, and less chance of a Ukrainian SAM missing and landing in Polish territory. Perfectly justifiable but probably impractical, as it would surely require some co-ordination over who would engage which missiles, and it's possible that a reverse situation would apply: a Polish SAM misses and lands in Ukraine, although I doubt the Ukrainians would make any more of a fuss about it than the Poles have. Both countries know who is the root cause of all the missiles flying.
Why do you think a stray missile hitting Poland would automatically mean WWIII?
Where the evidence to say it wasn’t? It’s my opinion and probably a more valid opinion that some of the ‘NATO had a word with Poland to deescalate’ or ‘it could still be a Russian missile’ etc.
The evidence is from the Poles themselves - they are currently of the opinion that it was a Ukrainian air defence missile. Hint: air defence missiles are fired at air targets, not counties. If you have evidence that proves the Poles wrong, feel free to present it - you're the one making the claim.
And Ireland's likely response will be 'let us know if you have any more problems getting heating oil for your Dublin embassy this winter, we put some aside for you just in case.'
You are quite right, the Orc's are solely to blame, but there's no reasoning with mad dogs.
I believe someone earlier in the thread stated that air defence missiles shouldn’t explode at sea level, or on impact with land which would make sense. Otherwise ones that miss their target would take out parts of your own country.
The Ukrainian demands for a “joint” investigation is odd to me too. Don’t they trust their Polish allies??
Air defence missiles can be launched from different platforms against ground targets - sure when S300 missiles were found in Ukrainian cities people blamed the russians and accused them of launching them at ground based targets (they were running out of missiles)
Unless of course that was not the case? And maybe s300 missiles fragments are from localised air defences that went wrong
But Zelensky wasn't claiming this was a Russian missile gone astray, he was claiming this was a direct Russian attack on Poland and a deliberate escalation of the conflict. I don't know the precise details of NATO protocol on how to respond in such circumstances but surely there is a real risk of such an incident leading to all-out war between Russia and NATO.
Russian missles.....
So your evidence is someone said something on the Internet.
That's an infantile view on reality and your analogy is not at all applicable. In this case your aunt has balls and a beard. Ukraine isn't attacking anyone, Russia is. Ukraine is defending itself, from an aggressive, out of control country. When Russia stops attacking Ukraine then Ukraine will stop. There's the answer to this problem.
Read it again
Shooting at an incoming missile, and missing, is not a screw up, if that is what happened. You seem awfully pro orc for an 11 post wonder who only registered this month. An utterly unique set of distinguishing characteristics we haven't seen before.
Is there nothing some wont do to absolve Russia of responsibility?
But Zelensky wasn't claiming this was a Russian missile gone astray, he was claiming this was a direct Russian attack on Poland and a deliberate escalation of the conflict
But Zelensky wasn't claiming this was a Russian missile gone astray, he was claiming this was a direct Russian attack on Poland and
Could you link to that claim please?
There is a specific ground attack version of missile the S-300 can launch, and it's those the Orcs have been firing at Ukraine. The S-300 launcher is not exclusively limited to ground to air engagements.
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