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Window Cleaner caused huge damage to glass.

jean3009

Has anyone ever successfully made a claim either through the Small Claims Court or the trades own insurance for damages to their property?

Long story short, the window cleaner has caused about €3K worth of damage to our glass. Windows were installed about 12 months ago in an extension to our home. He has admitted to using a Unger scraper but he is denying that he caused any damage. Of course I know he did it, since I have cleaned the windows a number of times myself and I am 100% that the scratches were not there beforehand. I mean you cant miss them, they run down and across one particular window. I do have photographs of the windows showing that they were covered during construction and showing them gleaming afterwards and scratch free but I have no way of proving that he did this.

Does anyone have any advise for me please? Can anyone please help?

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jean3009

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119856362#Comment_119856362

We (my husband and I) both witnessed him using a blade. Let me show you a picture of the window before he "cleaned it".

jean3009

This is one of the many little strands hanging. Can't rotate the picture, the scratches is vertical.

Edit to add that there are scratches on a number of other windows and patio sliding doors but this is by far the worst. The other scratches also have that arch at the top of the scratch - doesnt that show really that it wasnt an odd accidental scratch from a painter or plasterer (althought the windows were protected throughout with a film) but from someone actively "cleaning" the windows.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860858#Comment_119860858

The thing that I don't get is: if these strands are still hanging onto the glass, how did he actually clean the windows or did you stop him in the process?

jean3009

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860869#Comment_119860869

Its baffling to me too........no I didnt stop him, he finished and I paid him and only noticed the scratches the next morning because it was dark shortly after he left (and small kids really monopolise your attention) and we had the blinds down.

Someone made an interesting point here that maybe it was the squeegee and not the blade that did the damage, then the threads hanging would make sense because the squeegee is the last thing to touch the glass??????

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860918#Comment_119860918

Seemingly so!

kirk.

Of course a sponge or anything can potentially damage glass depending on what's on the surface

What is the best way to clean a window anyhow?

daheff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119853072#Comment_119853072

can you make a number of submissions (1 per room?) to get around the issue? More costly though.

[Deleted User]

If your window cleaner is reputable and used by other neighbours and well established, then there might be pause for thought here.

A reputable cleaner with years experience doesn’t want their name tarnished or indeed to be caught up in this situation.

The fact the windows are new, and whilst cleaned previously, were they inspected in proper day light with sunshine? Do the scratches appear in low light or a dull day? It MIGHT be the case these were existing scratches- it happens all the time with new windows delivered

However, You would also imagine that if a window cleaner spotted these scratches he’d bring it to your attention straight away? Otherwise he’s leaving himself open to criticism

It sounds like grit or glass caught up in the brush TBH- a blade, unless damaged at the edge would glide over glass and anyway, why would you use a blade on a whole window that didn’t have obvious heavy surface dirt? You wouldn’t.

So it’s back to, just how reputable is this guy? Does he have his own insurance, charges VAT etc?

If not, then you may have to go the legal route and try and establish some kind of settlement. But a scratch that’s obvious today, May have been there previously but due to window being dirty or low light, wasn’t spotted. If you’re sure that’s not the case, then maybe speaking to a solicitor is the unfortunate next step.

jean3009

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119876763#Comment_119876763

The scratches are deep, if you run a fingernail over it, you will hear it. They are visible all the time and not just low sun.

We suggested going through insurance and he won't provide his insurance details.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880791#Comment_119880791

OK - really sounds like he caused them, especially as he didn’t mention that he saw them - and how you describe the scratches, you couldn’t miss them.

It’s an extraordinary situation I have to say- I’ve never heard of such damage made in just one clean and on multiple windows, - I clean my own windows so I’m the one responsible for likely making thousands of microscopic scratches on my windows but only if you look very very closely, it’s not obvious and that’s after 20 years - I’d call it normal scratches really that everyone has.

Solicitor advice needed at this stage to see what your options are and what direction you’re prepared to go - it certainly sounds like you have a case that would get serious consideration but a solicitors advice will be important at this stage - best of luck

[Deleted User]

Just to add- the one piece of evidence he may put forward in his favour is that subsequent windows he cleaned with the same equipment have no marks or scratches -

kirk.

Surely this will be impossible to prove

JoChervil

For me these scratchers don't look like caused by the cleaner. They run parallel. Like in series of twos and threes. If the man cleaned the window with hands they would run in different directions and they wouldn't be so long.

For me it happened in a factory or on the site made by builders. For me it looks like an unprotected window was put flat on a dirty surface and then moved. And the few pieces of sand made this damage.

And if this things are hanging, so it is not a glass damaged. maybe it has an anti-breakage foil on it and this is damaged.

JoChervil

And these pics before and after are not a proof because they are taken in different conditions. The one which show scratches has a sun at the angle, so such lighting shows it perfectly. While without sun they are invisible but it doesn't mean they are not there

And you photographed different parts of the window.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119860858#Comment_119860858

are the threads brittle? i.e. are they made of plastic or glass?

i.e. might they be damage to a plastic coating on the outside of the glass?

jean3009

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880910#Comment_119880910

There are the same scratches on the other windows but this one seems to be the worst.

jean3009

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119881049#Comment_119881049

It is difficult to get a good picture but in reality they are deep scratches that you couldn't miss. I cleaned the windows a few times and there is no way on this earth that I wouldn't have seen these scratches.

JoChervil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119881234#Comment_119881234

On the other hand it could have been caused by the cleaner. But not with a scraper. When I look at the second pic, I see you don't have a windowsill there yet. Such surface is very nasty and "scratchy". I once badly hurt my elbow only slightly touching it. So if the window cleaner touched this surface with a squeegee and few pieces of it stuck to the rubber, so it could have caused this damage.

[Deleted User]

Something in my head is saying is the fancy shmancy window material the issue?

Is there something particular about this window? We’re talking “gashes” here- I’ve made a couple of minor long scratches through the years on one window, likely due to a dirty cloth but nothing like as described and you’d need to look closely to see them - @OP have you googled the make of your window to see if there are any other issues experienced by people who purchased?

Xcellor

Hi OP

I just had a cleaner do my windows and he has destroyed about 10 panes. He hadn't left the housing estate so I called him back and showed him.

He said it was there before hand - we talked it through - he gave me money back for cleaning the windows but I said that isn't going to cover the damage. He said he didn't have insurance. He's a well established tradesman.

In his case he used a blade also (bizarre if you ask me, especially for inside) however I believe it's more likely grit in his cloth did the damage. The picture from the OP isn't as bad as the damage caused to some of my windows.

I phoned my insurance to ask - i was told it was unlikely they would cover as structurally the window is fine.

The cost of replacing is going to be significant. They aren't fancy triple glazing or big windows but still would say over 1000 euro.

I am getting someone to quote for the replacements. Absolute disaster. I will give him the quote and see what he says otherwise it might be small claims court job.

OP any updates on what happened?

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119910226#Comment_119910226

This puts me off getting a window cleaner ever- I’ve mostly done my own but because windows are old, I didn’t pay too much attention to keeping clean cloths etc If I ever get new windows it’s proper equipment and just myself that will do them - that must be so depressing for you

Funnily enough I was watching a neighbours house get their windows cleaned recently and one minute they were scrubbing the gutters surround and next minute cleaning windows with same cloth- yuck- definately more wary now about window cleaners

Xcellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119910324#Comment_119910324

The guy came recommended and had done others in the area. Nice chap etc. It's unfortunate but if you're going to do work on other peoples property you've got to make sure the right tools are being used. A few bleeding bits of grit is all it takes here...

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119855972#Comment_119855972

The world doesn't work in absolutes like a mathematical equation. People do stupid things all the time. There is nothing to "add up".

No amount of guessing or investigation as to the specific root cause based on some forum pictures is going to lead anywhere other than argument, there are just too many variables.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119910561#Comment_119910561

Lesson learned for me anyway - sorry it had to be at your expense - never struck me that windows could get damaged so easily - I hate paying money out to people for jobs I can do myself hence only twice I think have I used a (reputable/comes recommended) window cleaner- but I’d hate to be left in that position after- at least if I do it, I’ve only myself to blame

Xcellor

20221123_111026.jpg

Here is an example of the scratches... i put a piece of cellotape there in case you can't see...

😪

[Deleted User]

Looks more like he used a damaged / worn squeegee with a sharp edge or something. Those are huge scrapes.

The panes of those windows aren't likely repairable without replacement. Most windows are coated, you can't just polish them out and it would be a huge task to do that with scratches that size anyway.

Xcellor

Just an update from my damaged glass.. 14 double glazed units in total.

To get the glass polished to remove the quote was 5000, to replace the 14 units it will be 1500.

The window cleaner accepted it was his fault so said he would cover the damage. Just got to contact him with the price now. :|

jean3009

Hi Everyone

Thanks for all your comments, I know its impossible to comment confidently when you only have a couple of pictures to judge by. Anyhow, we did go to a solicitor and they issued a letter. The window cleaners insurers (whoever they are, because we haven't been told) sent out an assessor who took lots of photographs.

A couple of weeks later, the claims assessor communicated with the solicitor that "Our client has stated that the only equipment he used was a handheld window mop, two squidges (for removing moisture from the windows), and microfibre cloths." A blatant lie. He absolutely 100% as witnessed by us used a Unger blade and I have a WhatsApp message from him where he discusses how he used a blade. So that's where we are at for now.

Xcellor - so glad that you got sorted. On closer inspection we noticed all the windows are scratched and got a quote of over €6000 to replace the glass!!