This is how I imagine it:
Interesting. Where is the west bound traffic currently going in that layout?
Nice and simple a flat, painted mini-roundabout. Shouldn't cost too much and no need to dig up part of the finished bypass.
A road side view of how the roundabout will look.
It looks like it will be ready well in advance of the opening date. The place was a hive of activity this morning when I passed.
Yep, here’s that junction in detail from OSM:
Though it’s not that far from the end of the scheme, it would still take the traffic out of the two towns/villages, leaving only the long unbroken bit in the middle to finish.
Of course it would have to suit, but it’s a sensible opening if it does.
Both villages get some pretty bad traffic, especially through Summer, and in this case, there’s a junction at Toonlane onto the old N25 immediately to the east of the town, so a tie-in would require no additional works.
Thanks for that, very very interesting.
Personally I doubt they'll open the BB bypass early too. It gets messy quickly and there is not the traffic-jam imperative like you get with Macroom.
Thanks for those clarifications GalwayLocal.
From what we can see of the finished section of the project, the contractor has done an excellent job. I think most can appreciate the complexities of a project like this and the last point you make is a good one. Doing the job is one thing, staying afloat is a bigger job. There is a myriad of things on the ground that can affect project completion, but the contractor had to factor in Covid and the huge rise in inflation which were big challenges.
Looking forward to the time saving element of the new bypass but the improved safety aspect is more welcome.
Just a couple of comments from someone in the know, which may be of interest
Hell no. I wanted to get a look at the plans, that's all.
For anyone who has any issues about this partial opening of this road, please have a read of the below article.
The people out there have only been waiting 50 years for it.
https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-41006951.html
The opening of the first section of the Macroom-Ballyvourney N22 project is great news.
Regarding the temporary tie in roundabout at Carrigaphooca, why wasn't a full junction similar to the Gurteenroe/Millstreet Rd junction not built in the first place? The council already owns most of the land around the Carrigaphooca junction and the slip roads required would be within the project boundary. A partial junction with the Roundabout and under-bridge has been built, the complete junction is almost there already.
At Carrigaphooca on the northern corridor of the new road, a lay-by has been built which ends just at the under-bridge, this is similar to the Gurteenroe/Millstreet Rd junction except here it continues over/beyond the under-bridge & forms a slip way lane to provide an exit route from the new rd to the roundabout and junction below.
With a complete junction at Carrigaphooca all traffic, such as commuters going to/from Cork & especially trucks coming to/from the south west (Ballingeary, Renanairee, & Kilnamartyra) areas especially could avoid the western end of Macroom town altogether. The way it is designed at the moment all traffic coming from these areas will need to come into the town, passing the graveyard, Auld Triangle, turning left and up through the Millstreet Rd to get onto the new bypass road or just continuing through the town. In effect this traffic will not be bypassing Macroom at all.
I don't agree with you regarding the Greens, and that's OK.
I'll give you a flavour of what makes me disagree: The urban/rural "divide" (rather the abuse of an urban/rural context for political purposes) was with us very long before the Green party were in power. It's heavily weaponised by all parties. I refer you to the national broadband plan, for example. Or drink driving limits. The National Spatial Strategy. The decentralisation plan. Etc. It's very much a classic Irish political trope and you elude to that yourself. Political interference in roads has been with us for a very long time. Maybe forever.
I fully agree that the NTA should be apolitical, or not politically aligned, but the DfT answers to the minister (or Gen Sec) so unfortunately will always be political in nature.
I also have lived (live?) both in rural and urban areas, and when I see or hear "well the Greens" all I see is a political punchbag. It reads like "devil worshippers who dance naked on the beach in front of lesbians" (I hope people get the reference!) and I don't think it's a helpful discussion point. I am confident that whoever comes to government next is not going to make such radical departures from the current trajectory regardless.
I say all the above as someone who's not politically aligned. I think of relatives of mine shouting "ye shot Michael Collins" at other relatives of mine: it's the breakdown of conversation/discussion and I find it irksome. Who cares what political party someone is from: if they make a good point then I'll stand behind it, and if they make a bad point (as I think Oisín did) I'll call it out.
Better not be us taxpayers...the delay is bad enough.
FYI
Not sure if it's the contractor or taxpayer who's funding it ;-)
Are you going to object yourself?
I think Oisin is 100% wrong on this one, but I think it would be better to dismiss his point and prove him wrong, rather than referring to his political party as proof that he's wrong. We do ourselves a disservice by bringing politics into these threads. That type of thing makes me not want to read a thread, and evidently (going by the Galway Ring Road thread for instance) it will often descend into unproductive discussion.
Unfortunately, roads and politics are so intertwined that it's become impossible to keep them apart. Even more so since 2020 when one of the three parties in Government has weaponised roads and made them into a divisive issue. As someone who has lived both in rural and urban Ireland, since the GP have come into power a number of the issues they have brought to the forefront have driven a wedge into the divide between urban and rural Ireland. Many GP voters are from urban areas, 10 of the TDs are from constituencies that are all or part city based, and 1 of the other 2 is from Wicklow, which is outer Dublin in many peoples eyes. Most of what they have put forward since entering Government has made the urban/rural divide even worse (the emissions reduction programme, culling the national herd, the turf bans, the talk of car sharing in rural areas, obstructing roads projects, carbon taxes) etc. There has always been an undercurrent of Dublin vs the rest in this country but it's a bit of a third rail thing and poking that bear only leads to rancour which is something we could do without.
I have only followed roads in this country since 2014 or so, and I have no doubt that the last 3 capital investment plans have been primarily politically driven. I have no doubt that the primary reason for including the N22 Baile Bhuirne to Macroom scheme was politically motivated. Look at how the N5 has developed in recent years. Ideally, you'd have a Department for Transport and Infrastructure that is given stable funding to develop the roads network (and indeed other infrastructure such as rail, and throw Eirgrid/DAA/Irish Water/ESB in that department too)*. Instead, we have this ad hoc development of the roads network and hodge podge investment plans that don't really add up to anything. There isn't even a masterplan for roads in Ireland that outlines what needs to be done and what needs to be prioritised.
As such, as long as that remains the way things are done, politics and roads development will forever remain one. I don't want to stray too much into politics on the Roads forum (we all know how toxic that becomes), but it's impossible to avoid it. Even more so that Roads have become such a hot topic under this Government as I outlined above. Before, roads just made their way through the processes (with obvious exceptions - Glen of the Downs, the M3 etc). Now, there is obstruction (from a Government party), judicial reviews, endless reams of red tape and bureaucracy with EVERY road scheme. Until we see reform, it'll continue to be this way
*- something like this: https://www.infrastructureaustralia.gov.au/search-infrastructure-priority-list
How much cheaper per km is 2+2 over HQDC (narrow median). Assume that the difficult terrain would have created an even higher premium here.
Irrespective, no way this scheme could justify full hqdc.
Agree, totally, but be prepared for quite a number of people who might tell you that it's a thousand times better than it was, to which I would agree.
Great that they finally constructed the road but personally I feel its an underpowered design due to the lack of hard shoulders. That area would have a higher rate of motorists who are not used to driving on high quality roads so I would presume there will be an increased risk of accidents especially in the first few months. The merging lanes off the slips are very short too so those junctions are ones to watch. The lilo's and lack of hard shoulders will mean the road will likely never have a 120km speed limit either. Still great to have it though and it was not an easy project given the terrain.
So I'll set the ball rolling.
He's wrong because the bends between Ballyvourney and Macroom are extremely dangerous.
He's wrong because the journey times between Kerry and Cork are totally unpredictable at present which affects freight, medical care and the subsequent ability for people in the urban centres of Kerry to contribute to the economy.
He's wrong because Kerry (and Killarney in particular) are major tourist destinations with significant tourist traffic.
He's wrong because there is no rail access to most of Kerry and poor, disconnected and infrequent bus services. Even if you make the trains and buses between Killarney and Cork free, an awful lot of traffic will stay on the N22 corridor. You'd need a radical ongoing investment in Kerry public transport to change that. You'd also probably need a more official policy of helicopter transport for medical transfers. Neither are particularly practical or significantly environmentally beneficial.
He's wrong because should there be an emergency closure of the existing N22, there are no straightforward alternate routes: Mallow is a significant detour and Clondrohid or Coolea are not suitable for any volume of traffic.
And here's a nice one on a "green" angle: he's wrong because cycling from Macroom to Ballyvourney is extremely dangerous at present.
Satisfying the above could make it potentially a candidate as a "vanity route" MAYBE.
I think many people in the Dublin area don't realise how poor the infrastructure is between Cork City and the surrounding areas (Limerick, Kerry and Waterford to a lesser degree) and seem to assume both that there's high quality infrastructure already in place and also that the whole island outside of Dublin is rural/small town in nature. They also seem to assume that the Cork area has the kind of public transport that the Dublin area has. Big misunderstandings IMO.
By all means push hard for a P&R at the West of Cork City and big improvements to bus and rail connectivity in Kerry, but this road isn't going to get less trafficked as our population grows.
Lads, please don’t be giving that clown any further audience on this thread. It’s pretty evident that Green Party ideology isn’t really going to curry favour in the roads forum.
Thankfully the road is nearly built and it’s immune from any Green shenanigans at this stage
He obviously has no idea what he is talking about.
Great drone video!
Standard level of discourse from the Green Party sadly.
What an absolute moron, he has clearly never driven on the N22 and doesn't realise that ambulance transfers between Tralee/Killarney and Cork are regularly held up on this section.
Also Dronehawk has been out, showing the temp works at Carrigphooca.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8CNovdsfck
Show me you've never left Dublin without telling me you've never left Dublin
It's a "vanity project", apparently.
Curiously, he turned off his comments 🤔
Probably leaving it like that for when they do Coolcower to Ovens.
That Coolcower roundabout is 1 lane on from the cork side, would they not be better having 50m of 2 lanes coming onto the roundabout, left lane macroom and the local access road, right lane for the bypass? There are houses on the left approaching the roundabout but after that it seems to be just replanted grass for 50 metres. Just seems odd to have a 2 lane roundabout and not take advantage of the 2 lanes.
I find it very hard to find a negative slant on this. It'll be great for Macroom, get that done as early as possible. Also the opening before Christmas is worth it in itself.
Since the current N22 at Carrigphooca was realigned anyway I think they own all the land anyway, hopefully the slight delays over the past few months involved a quick legal check on this one.
Can anybody give a definitive answer on how much of a delay this temporary adjustment is going to make? Not just guesswork or plucking a figure out of thin air. If not then I don't see how strong the argument against it can be.
And even if it's a few months I imagine the residents of Macroom themselves will probably be happy with the reduction in traffic through the town especially in the run-up to Christmas and beyond.
