What's gonna be the GME or AMC of the year? Money to be made still.
When Google starts cutting head count then it will be a buy, way to bloated now heading into a very painful downturn.
If they were treated equally for tax they are absolutely the best vehicle. I had them as 100% of my portfolio until the tax regime changed.
Its the combination of deemed disposal and inability to offset losses that makes them a scary prospect. You can’t just hold your losers until they’re winners, as after 8 years you’ll be forced to sell and crystallise any losses. If you’re 100% confident that, buying monthly, you’ll never ever have a loser over an 8 year time frame, then cool, go for it.
Add in that for most people, it’s difficult to say with absolutely certainty that you can hold long term, there are very material drawbacks that need to be considered.
I agree with all your other points.
Oh and ability to bed and breakfast for €1,270 tax free gains every year is a nice perk for people with smaller portfolios.
I really don't agree with your efforts to put people off ETF's. Buying and Holding ETF's have been proven repeatedly to be the single greatest creator of wealth. To go through your arguments....
ETF's are great vehicles and are the ones 99% of investors should be using. There's 1% of investors that can beat them.
Google at below 90 screams a buy for me
Even when I'm up, I'm down!
Stocks up yesterday yet currency meant I dropped 2%. Down 22% overall now. At this rate, I'll need a 60% return to get back to break even.
My logic at the time I bought Twitter was, it was a company with huge growing site traffic, but it just couldn't monetise it. It was crying out for a new CEO who would shake things up. I didn't think it would be Musk though.
I think that’s very optimistic given what we’ve seen in the past and that tech indexes are down 35% the last year. Sure on average you’ll be up with regular investing. But to assume you have no chance of catching a few peaks and then your 8 year deemed disposal catching a trough…Nasdaq took 14 years to pass its 2000 peak again. It was roughly half the value 8 years later, just when deemed disposal would force you to crystallise your losses.
Also throw in fact, who truly knows when they might need to liquidate some cash for unforeseen events.
41% tax does have some advantages as you can roll up income instead of having dividends paid out and taxed at 52%.
The only thing is if you are buying EFT's and holding longterm 5+ years it unlikely that any will be loss making. Biggest catch is the 41%V 33% tax rate and the 8 year tax clause whether you sell or not ( you really have to sell to restart the clock)
I'm glad you mentioned that. Another big negative. Massive in fact.
I do not think he will. He is already losing advertising revenue some big companies have jumped ship. He bough it on a whim, then when he took.it over he jumped in both feet first.
His original idea to charge 20 dollars was reduced to 8 and that is only for verified users. This revenue stream was only bringing in 6-7 million per month anyway.
He has laid off 50% of the staff and all the management. When did you last see that in a corporate takeover. He has probably broken employment law in 5-6 jurisdiction, there is a class action in California already. Along with that this type of uncontrolled sackings will leave gaps in the organisation these are not telesales employees or production line staff.
Taoiseach and Micheal McGrath have been critical of the process already ( and this in a country that never criticises an MNC or what they do.
Finally the reason advertisers do not want rednecks is they do not spend money on tech gadgets or perfumes. They buy guns and crewcabs. They are not spending there.money on items advertisers sell.
The tax headache is one problem. But the part nobody talks about - you cant offset gains and losses, even within the same ETF.
ETFs are a complete and utter disaster for regular investors and should be held by nobody buying regularly. A real shame, as it’s so awkward/expensive to get diversified exposure without them.
Funnily enough I said this to lots of people back in 2020/21 and people weren’t fussed cause stocks only go up.
Now that they’re holding onto 60% losses for their 2021 purchases with no ability to use those against potential future gains, they are utterly sickened. I’d sooner regularly invest in random penny stocks than be part of such a ridiculous tax regime.
Taking an absolute bath on Atlassian today, down 32%
He's not put all the 44b in himself. The Saudis have invested aswell for example, which is why I guess I'm seeing adverts that Saudi Arabia are planting trees and preserving lakes and rivers now.
I do think Musk will get it profitable, but I don't think it'll ever become worth-his-while profitable.
He's never getting his 44 billion back anyway.
That's exactly the problem with Twitter. Everyone loves it, most people use it, and loads of people get value from it, but Twitter never charged anyone. Dorsey always saw it as a "public town square", a place everyone could go to be heard. He never really set out to make money the way other Social Media companies did.
I was a shareholder, it annoyed me when Kim Kardashian and Beyonce were being paid $1m to put out a tweet, Twitter provided a means for her to make that transaction, but didn't see any of the money.
Old Twiter had huge costs and little revenue. He's already attacking both sides of that problem with the layoffs and the $8 fee to be verified
Yeah you're right, it should. Certainly for the first 8 years it traded off the dream.
In the last year with all the other Social Media stocks down 60-80%, Twitter should have been, it was propped up by Musk's $54.20 bid. But for that it would have been a $15-20 stock IMO
I was actually surprised when I first learned how much twitter was worth. I thought 30bn for one of the most used websites in the world was cheap.
Well I guess to ask it another way, I don't understand how it could burn through cash for 9 years, barely ever post a profit and not be hit in valuation.
Was it just a symptom of the cheap money around this past decade that investors were willing to put up with this?
Stock didn't grow at all really, IPO day closed at $49, Musk bought it for $54. It was an awful return for 9 years as a public company
What's done is done, learn lessons and move on. We've all taken losses in our investments
Wouldn't investing in an ETF be the "safest" option for an inexperienced investor? A lot of people say to avoid them because of the extra 8% tax and deemed disposal rules, but if you factor in the reduced risk from such a diversified portfolio, surely it's warranted for some? Unless you're willing to dedicate a significant amount of time into researching companies, I would guess that your returns from ETF's are on par with investing into individual stocks.
Feel a bit sick. I held baba for 2 years, DCA'ing. Sold at a huge loss when it tanked after Xis election and put the remains into BRK.B. I was fearful of the whole Taiwan situation and me losing another 10k by the stock going to 0 like Russia's.
Now it's going up, up nearly 9% again pre market.
Feels like it's gonna be years before I just breakeven. Hate looking at my portfolio and seeing it in red.
Twitter was public for like 10 years but only posted a profit in 2 of those years. It was taking in billions in revenue but couldn't make a profit? TBH I can't get my head around it, the app itself is relatively simple, it's not like they were rolling out new features every month.
It's probably my own ignorance but I could never really understand why the stock continued to grow when it was obviously struggling to make any money or gain any new users.
I still feel we need to weather the recession first. Tech stocks have had their pullback, but broader markets haven't had a major pullback yet IMO
Agree 100% ... We are currently in a funny sort of twilight world where everything is a bit topsy turvy. Tech and disruptors are getting hammered.... fossil fuel, traditional banks and big pharma are the new kings 👑
But inflation will eventually get sorted out, the war in Ukraine will eventually end and China will re-open fully at some stage. Then the stockmarkets are off to the moon 🚀 🌜
All the FAANGS tbh, look at Alphabet down below $100 today, 52 week lows every day. Where is the bottom here? Id say theres going to be some rocket lit the day the fed announces they're done with interest rate rises.
Take your point on the tax treatment, but IT's are basically hedge funds (a fund manager is picking stocks for you trying to beat the market). 99% of them don't beat the market, so you're paying 41% on more profit versus 33% on less profit. Your tax bill migt be less, but your profits won't necessarily be.
It's max an hour. And BTW, DD means for regular savers, every year after year 8 you need to do the return.
But it's a CGT return, everyone buying and selling anything has to do a return every year. Anyone in a Share picks thread needs to do one each year and picks it up very quickly. It's max an hour work, a lot less than stockpickers put into selecting stocks or their favourite Investment Trust.
Wouldn't say it's complete BS. Deemed disposal rules here mean that if every eight years you need to make this calculation. Bit of a mess tbh.
If you have one ETF, yes but I know people with a dozen.
Plus it's 41% tax versus 33% on an Investment Trust.
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