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New Irish Rail Intercity, Commuter and DART Timetable Public Consultation

LXFlyer

A new Irish Rail timetable will come into effect from December 11th, and a public consultation has just gone live.

Full details here: https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/news/Proposed-timetable-changes-from-11th-December-2022

I've posted an extract below:

A detailed summary of proposed changes below.

Iarnród Éireann and the National Transport Authority will review all suggestions received. Suggested alterations which cannot be implemented at this timetable change will be retained in a database for consideration at future timetable reviews. Please note that peak frequency cannot currently be increased, as all available fleet and infrastructure capacity is in use.

Dublin/Maynooth/M3 Parkway/Longford

Existing 16:01 hrs Pearse/Maynooth service advanced to 15:55 hrs Monday to Friday

Northern Commuter

Existing 05:40 hrs Dundalk/Pearse service on Monday to Friday will be advanced to 05:30 hrs and extended to Grand Canal Dock.
Existing 07:09 hrs Pearse/Drogheda service on Monday to Friday will be extended to start from Grand Canal Dock at 07:05 hrs.
New 16:09 hrs Connolly/Drogheda service Monday to Friday
Existing 17:12 hrs Connolly/Balbriggan has been retimed to provide 16:09 hrs Connolly/Drogheda. The existing 17:13 hrs Pearse/Newry will call additionally at Malahide as a result.
Existing 17:58 hrs Balbriggan/Pearse will be extended to start from Drogheda at 17.48 hrs Monday to Friday.

Phoenix Park Tunnel (Grand Canal Dock to Hazelhatch)

New 08:31 hrs Grand Canal Dock/Hazelhatch Monday to Friday.
New 16:00 hrs Grand Canal Dock/Hazelhatch Monday to Friday.
New 16:37 hrs Hazelhatch/Grand Canal Dock Monday to Friday.
Existing 15:50 hrs Hazelhatch/Grand Canal Dock Monday to Friday will be deferred to 15:53 hrs.

Heuston to Newbridge Commuter

Monday to Friday: New services at 09:45, 10:40, 11:40, 12:40, 13:40 and 14:40 hrs from Heuston to Newbridge serving all stations.
Monday to Friday: New services at 10:26, 11:40, 12:26, 13:26, 14:26 and 15:27 hrs from Newbridge to Heuston serving all stations.

Dublin / Waterford

Existing 07:00 hrs Waterford/Heuston will be advanced to 06:50 hrs and call additionally at Kilkenny. There will be no change to arrival time at Heuston.
New 08:26 hrs Dublin to Carlow service, calling at Newbridge, Kildare, Athy and Carlow.
New 10:15 hrs Carlow to Dublin service, calling at Athy, Kildare, Newbridge and Heuston.

Dublin / Rosslare Europort

Monday to Friday: 07.20 hrs Rosslare Europort/Connolly will call additionally at Kilcoole.
Saturday: All services will call additionally at Kilcoole.
Sunday: All services will call additionally at Kilcoole.

Dublin / Westport / Ballina

New 05:05 hrs service from Ballina to Manulla which will connect with an advanced 05:15 hrs Westport/Heuston service Monday to Friday.
New 05:38 hrs Manulla/Ballina service Monday to Friday.
New 07:08 hrs Athlone/Westport service Monday to Friday.
Existing 07:37 hrs Manulla/Ballina service Monday to Friday, deferred to 08:40 to provide connection from new 07:08 hrs service from Athlone.

Athlone / Galway

Existing 07:30 hrs Athlone/Galway service will now commence from Tullamore at 06:50 hrs on Monday to Friday, and additionally serve Clara. There will be no change to the timings between Athlone and Galway.

Limerick / Ballybrophy (via Nenagh)

Existing 06:30 hrs Limerick/Ballybrophy service is deferred to 06:45 hrs Monday to Saturday, with same arrival time, an improved journey time of 15 minutes.
Existing 16:55 hrs Limerick/Ballybrophy service is deferred to 17:10 hrs Monday to Saturday, with same arrival time, an improved journey time of 15 minutes.
Existing 07:45 hrs Nenagh/Limerick service is deferred to 07:47 hrs with existing arrival time in Limerick Monday to Saturday.
Existing 10:08 hrs Ballybrophy/Limerick arrives 15-minutes earlier arrival at Limerick 11:52 hrs Monday to Saturday.
Existing 19:05 hrs Ballybrophy/Limerick arrives 15-minutes earlier arrival at Limerick 20:48 hrs Monday to Saturday.
Existing 17:20 hrs Limerick/Ballybrophy service is deferred to 17:35 hrs Sundays, with same arrival time, an improved journey time of 15 minutes.
Existing 18:25 hrs Ballybrophy/Limerick arrives 15-minutes earlier arrival at Limerick 19:21 hrs Sundays.

Cork Commuter

New 22:00 hrs Cork to Cobh and 22:30 hrs Cobh to Cork services Monday to Saturday.
Existing 22:30 hrs Cork to Cobh deferred to 23:00 hrs, and existing 23:00 hrs Cobh to Cork deferred to 23:30 hrs Monday to Saturday
Existing 22:15 hrs Cork to Midleton deferred to 22:45 hrs, and existing 22:45 hrs Midleton to Cork deferred to 23:15 hrs Monday to Saturday.

DART

Monday to Friday:
- 09:24 hrs Greystones/Howth deferred to 09:27 hrs with altered timings to Connolly. Existing timings retained from Connolly to Howth.
- Minor timing alterations to 15:04 hrs Greystones/Howth and 15:25 hrs Bray/Malahide.
- 16:30 hrs Malahide/Greystones deferred to 16:34 hrs with altered timings to Connolly. Existing timings retained from Connolly to Greystones.
Saturday:
- 09:35 hrs Greystones/Howth deferred to 09:37 hrs.
- 15:30 hrs Greystones/Malahide deferred to 15:32 hrs.
- 20:13 hrs Bray/Malahide deferred to 20:15 hrs.
Sunday:
- 12:00 hrs Bray/Malahide deferred to 12:03 hrs.
- 16:43 hrs Bray/Malahide deferred to 16:45 hrs.

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yer man!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119809439#Comment_119809439

I cannot understand this either. I made a submission mentioning this that a weekend service is sorely needed.

thomasj

Sure Maynooth and Drogheda can't even get a weekend service beyond Connolly atm

TranslatorPS

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119809970#Comment_119809970

Which has a hilarious side effect - in August and September I put together a book format timetable of all Irish Rail lines. The DART Greystones/Bray/Connolly/Malahide[or]Howth lines, including all trains over them, take up 16 pages Mon-Fri. Saturdays fit on 9, simply because all of the Phoenix Park and Maynooth trains disappear from the pages, never mind the frequency drops. Sundays - 6 pages.

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119809439#Comment_119809439

Never mind weekend service, they can't even manage off-peak service. All that fanfare around the opening of the Phoenix Park Tunnel and it was all for a couple of services at rush hour. And I'm sure Dart+ is going to be the all the excuse they need to delay with improving services on this line in the meantime.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811551#Comment_119811551

Such a shame they can't commit to this section of track. You could add stops at Phoenix Park and Cabra and make it a line worth operating regularly. Unfortunately, they omitted new stations on this section in the Dart+ application.

In the near term, Platform 7 in Connolly could be used as a regular terminus and turn back for services to Maynooth and Celbridge every 15 minutes (combined frequency) without any major disruption to other services which would use platforms 5 and 6 for the coastal Dart.

I know it's not 'that' simple but it should be easily doable in near term.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811551#Comment_119811551

There are services through the Phoenix Park tunnel all day long Monday-Friday.

You might want to check the timetable before making comments like that.

https://www.irishrail.ie/IrishRail/media/Timetable-PDF-s/Heuston-timetables/16-Dublin-Portlaoise-No-Kildare-Shuttle-110422.pdf

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119811645#Comment_119811645

Let's be clear here that the previous poster was wrong.

There is an all day service through the Phoenix Park tunnel Monday to Friday from early morning to late at night, and there are three extra services on that route planned to be added from December.

Right now my understanding is that there is still a shortage of drivers across the network, which does impact on what can and cannot operate (that's aside from the rolling stock shortage), and given that it takes over 12 months to pass out a new driver as fully trained, it is taking time to address.

The driver shortage is a result primarily of the knock-on effects of:

1) A lengthy dispute between the previous CEO and the unions which resulted in a union ban on training new drivers in cab - this was resolved shortly after the current CEO took over, but it caused a backlog of trainee drivers to be passed out.

2) Covid restrictions during lockdown meaning that in-cab training was suspended again

3) Retirements and I believe some of the external recruits leaving when they found the job wasn't for them.

As a result, the timetable changes have tended to be small increments, as more drivers pass out. There hopefully will be increased numbers passed out in the coming years to facilitate the much needed expansion of services.

The lack of rolling stock has also impacted on the ability to deliver additional capacity at peak times, but the ongoing delivery of the 41 additional intermediate cars for the ICR fleet will allow the fleet to reform into a combination of 3, 4 and 6-car sets which will allow for some cascading of rolling stock, but they won’t start entering service until mid-2023.

Expecting major changes quickly is unrealistic given those constraints.

Deedsie

Is there a suggested date for the publication of the updated timetable? I know there is a lot of work involved in the background to get the timetable right but presume it would have to be done in the next week or two. Trains after Dec 11th cant be booked. People organising Christmas parties etc will need to be booking trains soon.

Poxyshamrock

Anyone else hopeful that the apparent delay with the new timetable means that IÉ/NTA have actually taken a significant amount of the consultation on board and are making changes where possible? Otherwise one would assume, the proposed changes announced by them in September could have been implemented a lot quicker?

namloc1980

Hopefully. They'd want to get a move on though. The timetables on the IE website are blank from the 11th December onwards.

bikeman1

I heard about 2 weeks ago the timetable had been completed internally. I presume they then go to loading everything into the system, double checking everything and then final approval. I would imagine the "new" timetable and bookings will be available very soon.

I say "new" because it is probably for the most part the same as before with a few tweaks around the edges and still the same issues as I highlighted on this thread and to IÉ.

The backlash online about the quieter carriage was funny yesterday. Lots of slamming IÉ for lack of staff interaction on trains. Seems like some of the CSO's and hosts are very much enjoying chilling out in the back cab and doing one quick walk through the train once or twice during the journey. That has been my experience on some of my recent IC journeys.

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119848502#Comment_119848502

I imagine it's getting to the point now where they're eating into their forward bookings with this delay.

Jamie2k9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119848634#Comment_119848634

Your lucky if you get one walk through with many. Its a shame as there are some really good CSOs but overall the CSOs based on current performance are not worth it. Prehaps the NTA needs to specify minimun dutites within the PSOs and monitor it themselves. Head of customer sevice in IE clearly to busy.

Bear minimun CSOs visable on platfroms, walk through at major stations which is typically 3 or 4 stops on all routes and announcements.

They were also due to be equiped with ticket equipment. Then again we also have 2 year old e ticket machines not been used.

Sometimes I wonder if covid excsues are still been used.

Deedsie

Looks like the new timetable will be published this week. They updated the press statement on the Irish Rail news page to say to check back on the week starting November 14th.

So should be out by Friday at the latest.

LXFlyer

The new timetable is now live and online bookings are possible:

https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/news/proposed-timetable-changes-from-11th-december-2022

loyatemu

good to see detailed responses to the main items of feedback they received (though virtually every response is "we don't have enough drivers")

p_haugh

Good to see they're actively planning on adding in a 20:00 service from Connolly to Gorey in 2023, which "is being examined as an utmost priority with implementation at the earliest opportunity in 2023."

Would it not make more sense to have this service continue to Wexford? I assume the train would continue on to Wexford for stabling.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119876603#Comment_119876603

I’d say it would come back to Connolly, as they’d clearly be using a Connolly set to do it, and it would need to be back for first thing.

There are driver bases only in Rosslare or Connolly.

p_haugh

Ah right, I would have thought Wexford was the driver base, not Rosslare. Makes more sense now

Poxyshamrock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119876368#Comment_119876368

Interesting that the career opportunities section of Irish Rail website doesn't look for train drivers?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119877572#Comment_119877572

The problem isn’t a lack of applicants, it’s a backlog in the training program as explained in my earlier post above. It’s a lengthy process (at least one year).

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119876331#Comment_119876331

It's fantastic to see Ireland finally waking up to the potential of rail.

The changes proposed here, as well as the additional changes envisaged / acknowledged following improved driver resource, are a credit to Irish Rail and to the Green Party.

These changes could have happened decades ago. It's not a coincidence they are finally happening while the Green Party and Eamon Ryan are in government.

Deedsie

It's great to see the changes Irish Rail are making to the timetable. The Nenagh line is my local line and even that line has seen improvements to the service for once.

We already knew it but the automation of the 13 remaining gate keeper crossings on the Nenagh line will have to be sorted for their to be any increase in services on the line.

The number of hours gate keepers can work is an issue apparently. Hopefully the funding can be found to carry out an automation project sooner rather than later. 2 of the 13 are already partially automated apparently so hopefully that will reduce costs required.

Trains will be back running on the line from Monday. After that, once the final welding is complete, the track renewal project should be fully complete prior to the introduction of the new timetable.

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119878200#Comment_119878200

Not sure if this is sarcastic or not? It must be because this is nothing but a bit of tinkering around the edges- the later evening trains are all still sorely lacking and there’s practically no major investment in the infrastructure like passing loops etc or even dual track to Expand capacity. We’ve had a dose of the Greens in government now for long periods and all they’ve managed to do is expand the nanny state and tax ordinary citizens even more. No metro, no new rail lines. Nothing radical at all

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886178#Comment_119886178

Dart+ West, Dart+ South West, Metrolink, BusConnects, Connecting Ireland, Cork Rail Network expansion, Limerick Rail Network planning.

Seriously?

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886205#Comment_119886205

The majority of which are still nice pretty plans. I’ll try imagine myself on the metro from city centre to the airport- that might work?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886178#Comment_119886178

You can’t add more trains without the drivers or the rolling stock as I’ve explained above.

But they are both coming - it just takes a long time unfortunately to train new drivers and procure & commission new rolling stock. New drivers are being trained and the first of the additional 41 intermediate coaches for the Intercity railcars have been delivered.

The Nenagh line has been fully relaid, a loop at Oranmore is in the pipeline and IE are pushing for the dual-tracking of Limerick Junction-Killonan.

The All Island Strategic Rail Review is due to be published shortly and that will be the driver for more investment.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886386#Comment_119886386

The first time the Greens were in power was during the worst recession this country ever faced. This time around they are only 2.5years into their term and there are plans and actions in every corner of the Island.

What more do you expect from Eamon Ryan - to have personally built new rail lines during the last 30 months in the midst of a global pandemic?

Emme

Dublin / Waterford - THE "SERVICE" IS EVEN MORE ABYSMAL, I THOUGHT "LESSONS WOULD HAVE BEEN LEARNED" ABOUT OVERCROWDING DURING COVID!!! I WAS HOPING FOR TOO MUCH.

Existing 07:00 hrs Waterford/Heuston will be advanced to 06:50 hrs and call additionally at Kilkenny. There will be no change to arrival time at Heuston. Great for Kilkenny commuters, not so good for everyone else, particularly those who get on after Kilkenny. I get on at Athy and most of the time seats booked by Athy passengers are already occupied. If this train is even more packed it means the corridors and aisles will be packed to pre-COVID levels and more.
New 08:26 hrs Dublin to Carlow service, calling at Newbridge, Kildare, Athy and Carlow. This doesn't seem to be very well received but at least it will get people to later lectures in Carlow.
New 10:15 hrs Carlow to Dublin service, calling at Athy, Kildare, Newbridge and Heuston. Not much use for commuters but good for people with early afternoon hospital appointments and might take some pressure off the 07:50 Waterford to Heuston service.

A morning service that starts in Carlow around 7:30am and gets into Heuston at around 8:30am would be helpful. It could stop in Athy and maybe another station on the way as well. If that morning service could start in Waterford it would be better still because the current service is not adequate. More people have to return to the office instead of working from home. Most students studying in Dublin commute because accommodation in Dublin is too expensive. The Waterford line has been woefully neglected for years. When will this change?

road_high

the last few times I’ve gotten the train from Kilkenny I’ve noticed it gets pretty full now from there. People in Carlow onwards really struggle to get a seat and certainly little luxury of picking where you want to sit. In reality the line needs at minimum an hourly service, perhaps more at peak commute times. That time in Kilkenny is going to be seriously popular as it leaves 7.30 and arrives in Dublin 9.00am- that will suit a lot of people.

The lack of later evening services is a particular Achilles heel but not unique to the Waterford line of course.