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Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022 - Read OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 306 ✭✭Hodger


    There are always two sides to every story here is the other side, read her version of events.

    https://twitter.com/ChoiceTerfility/status/1585116986794967041


    She didn,t feel comfortable sharing a toilets / bathroom with a man which is her right, which is no different to women who oppose and feel uncomfortable sharing unisex changing rooms and having men walk in on them and men film them in unisex changing rooms.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-62616681

    https://metro.co.uk/2022/09/27/primark-to-make-fitting-rooms-safer-after-two-men-walk-in-on-woman-17455651/

    None of this was really an issue until unisex bathrooms and unisex changing rooms were brought in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,367 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    there is no suggestion that the person harassed was doing anything other than waiting to use the toilet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Is this just going to be you aggressively googling thinly sourced shyte



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,139 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    She didn,t feel comfortable sharing a toilets / bathroom with a man which is her right, which is no different to women who oppose and feel uncomfortable sharing unisex changing rooms and having men walk in on them and men film them in unisex changing rooms.

    She of course has the right not to feel comfortable, but the only thing she can do about it is leave and find another toilet. Even if the victim in this case wasn't transgender, there's no law in England and Wales preventing men from using womens' toilets or women from using mens'. The establishment in question was even fine with it, so there isn't even the argument that the T&Cs of using the bathroom were breached. There is, however, laws against filming people in private places. Being filmed without your consent in a changing room is in absolutely no way the same or even vaguely similar to the situation at hand. Frankly, it's a ridiculous comparison.

    Also, you say "there's always two sides to every story" - the Reduxx article only gives her side - in an extremely biased way. So you haven't given us a side we haven't already heard from.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,992 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Out of curiosity, what will this mean for online hate speech or, certain, hate sites “founded” on such things as transphobia? Like that anti-boards ones setup not too long ago.

    “It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be” - A. Dumbledore

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Translation: "Will this get rid of those views that I don't like?"

    The irony too of you posting it here, on a sub forum that you've actively tried to get rid of since you started posting on boards. You're almost the poster boy for the abuse of language, and terms like "hate", hence why you hope so dearly that these laws will be your friend.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 306 ✭✭Hodger


    If the pub in question has separate male / female bathrooms there was no reason for the man to of being inside the women,s bathroom .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,139 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    There's no legal basis for holding that personal opinion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,337 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I have no idea who "Paula" but she admits in that thread to abusing the security staff, which again backs up the police report.

    Thanks for that. 👍️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,992 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Mere curious, T.

    I have never “actively” tried to get this forum. In fact, if you look at my, many, comments on the “subject” over in the “Feedback” forum, and elsewhere, you will clearly see that I have always supported this forum and have called for lighter moderation.

    What I have called for is stricter moderation in “After Hours” to keep the, angry oddball, CA types out of that, more normal, forum. I don’t think that’s too much to ask, do you?

    As for “these laws”, well, they’ll be the friend of anyone who abides by them and doesn’t go attacking others with hateful speech.

    “It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be” - A. Dumbledore

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 290 ✭✭j2


    It's very apparent that a vast majority of people are opposed to ideas which are now unaccountably mainstream. The notion of the tipping point, as described by a 2011 study by the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, suggests that a 10% total of true believers among a population consequently results in a majority ultimately holding this particular opinion, tends to come to mind. The bunsen burner (handy little earner) on hand to politically motivated individuals who wish to use the venal avenues of corporate media to propagate a point of view which is considered expedient by their owners, whom may possess motivations opaque to many of the common man, means that manipulation of a particularly agreeable class (call them midwits, holding a meaningless degree in the arts etc but essentially ignorant, an academic class of modern invention, ton of chick's in there tbh) results in mainstream acceptance of utterly insane and degenerate ideas.I think some of you people, who I know from your posts, really need to think for a second.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 306 ✭✭Hodger


    Attacking others with hateful speech " there is nothing " hateful " about opposing fictional lies being taught to children in schools about so called multiple genders and teaching boys fiction that they have periods too, as has been reported in the past.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boys-can-have-periods-too-primary-pupils-are-taught-hg5lb85mp



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Apparently there was none. She’s tried to get it, she’s asked for the registration number of the arrest etc but she has been given the cold shoulder so far. It’s all in the article.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    So her word vs. the video, the police, the bar staff, and paula.

    Oh man this is hard.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭lmao10


    The far right meltdown has been great to watch lately.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    They didn’t ask about their gender. They stated that the bathroom was single sex, and they members of the other sex have their own bathrooms. Why no charges if she threatened him??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    Where, other than in the imaginations of Boardsies, has it been reported she was “drunken” or “pissed”??


    Is it transference? Some people can’t go out for a drink without getting pissed and causing a scene, so everyone must do the same??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    If you are arrested there should be paperwork and a reference number. Neither of which they could provide.

    This is behaviour from the police that people are applauding.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,631 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    I've no idea what far right you are talking about....but it should be remembered, when an authority is resorting to controlling/policing speech it's normally because they are losing the people and they need to impose their policies through state control. The political parties in this country that are in Government are in terminal decline!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,139 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    The very fact that she was "de-arrested" (according to the article), means that she was never brought to a Police station. If she was, she couldn't have been de-arrested, she'd have to be "released without charge". They're two different things.

    A custody record is only created by the Custody Officer when you're actually brought to the station. Since she wasn't, there couldn't be one. The arresting officer is supposed to log the arrest in their notebook at the time of the arrest if they're able to, or at the first available opportunity if circumstances don't allow it. Outside a pub at 2am in a volatile situation like this would be the kind of situation where the officer wouldn't necessarily be in a position to write up the arrest immediately after it happened. Once the woman was de-arrested, there was no onus on the officer to record anything, as at that stage there was no arrest. Even if they did log it in their notes, the custody record - not the notes - is the official record of the arrest, and in this situation doesn't and couldn't exist.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,439 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    You’re choosing to ignore a few important points regarding the new legislation.

    • It relates to all protected characteristics, not just gender
    • It won’t have any chilling effect on legitimate debates or discussion. The fact that they’re legitimate means that they will be recognised as such -
    • The legislation will also contain “robust safeguards” for freedom of expression, such as protections for reasonable and genuine contributions to literary, artistic, political, scientific or academic discourse, and fair and accurate reporting.
    • https://www.irishlegal.com/articles/new-approach-to-hate-crime-will-not-require-motive-to-be-proved
    • Who gets to decide what is or isn’t a violation of the new legislation? The same people who decide whether or not anything else is a violation of existing legislation.
    • This legislation isn’t nearly so niche as your own rather missile-like focus on just one aspect of legislation which is actually quite broad in its scope, as it covers the following protected characteristics -
    • Ireland’s equality laws outlaw discrimination on nine characteristics: gender, civil status, family status, sexual orientation, disability, religion, age, race, and membership of the Traveller community. All of these grounds are protected from discrimination in employment and in access to good services and facilities.
    • https://www.makerightsreal.ie/understanding-rights/equality/


    And lastly, and perhaps most importantly - it protects you from anyone else, as much as it protects anyone else from you.

    What it doesn’t do however, is protect anyone from it being pointed out to them that they’re being a shìt stirrer. Being a shìt stirrer is not a protected characteristic, although there are rules against that sort of behaviour on Boards which is a private entity, who are under no obligation to protect anyone’s right to freedom of expression in the first place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 306 ✭✭Hodger




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    She was arrested, and put in a cell for hours.


    “After multiple hours, Kate was asked if she wanted to apologize to the trans-identified male, something police insisted would allow her to leave without incident.

    “They said, ‘if you just apologize, then we can just leave all of this here and you can go home.’ I told them I was not going to apologize because I had not done anything wrong.”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,139 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    It says absolutely nothing about her being in a cell. The article specifically mentions her being held in a police vehicle. And as I said, it would be physically impossible for them to de-arrest her if she had been brought to a station. Once you’re processed by the Custody Officer, you just can’t be de-arrested, only released without charge. The difference between the two is that with de-arrest, there is no record of the arrest by definition. I mean, it’s really clear cut. She wasn’t in a cell, and there will be no record of her arrest. This is exactly the way the process she went through is supposed to work - nothing suspicious or wrong about it at all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    So the police should be able to detain someone for hours at a time with no charge. 5 officers according to her. Excellent use of police time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,139 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Imagine a Traveller was arrested on suspicion of a public order offence before being de-arrested, got an article written on the Pavee Point website about their experience. Would you take it completely at face value? That’s exactly what you’re doing here. It’s one of the most biased, one sided articles I’ve ever read.

    I really don’t understand your obsession with the article - all you’ve done is misinterpret it time and time again. It’s a bog standard public order incident that the police handled according to protocol, not the TERF version of the Birmingham 6.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,337 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Your article stated she was drinking all evening, until 2am.

    I already highlighted the relevant part.

    🤷‍♂️



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,091 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    I find the use of the word cúnt hateful towards wimmin.



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