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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    Well, conversion methods usually involve money and/or power to get the 'not so faithful' on board. That is an ancient tactic. Look at it as selling indulgences. And look what is waiting for you down the line! You're not going to hell for starters. Plus, grants and institutional backup, a growing market and lots of friends in high places. And then you go home and can tell your family and friends that you have done your bit to save the planet. Alround feel good factor. And if you are successful you might even get to be on TV! A highly attractive package if you ask me..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    Indeed. And aluminum and steel factories are and will drastically cut production. People often forget that green tech heavily relies on a functioning supple chain which has been broken.

    Anyway, first thing to do is NOT to panic. Im afraid this government will make the same ad hoc mistakes every other country seems to. We might have to wait until the next election to boot the Greens out. By that time every EU country will be in such a **** storm that reality hopefully forces the right policies to be implemented which must involve nuclear. If not the extremes will take over as history suggests. And that is the real nightmare scenario.

    Post edited by deholleboom on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,016 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    It can take around 40 times more water to extinguish a burning Tesla than a petrol powered car.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭ginger22




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  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I got wet coming home from the gym today, fecking greens, pfft



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Dat'll be the climate change. Don't bother drying off, the world is about to burst into flames any second now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Biz Post:

    Energy regulator decision scuppers 60% of planned gas plants

    Six large-scale power plants which secured capacity contracts earlier this year are on the brink of being terminated as projects after the energy regulator rejected a proposal to introduce more flexibility to the terms of the payment contracts.

    The rejection means that over 1,100 megawtts (MW), or up to 60 per cent, of the total 1,870MW of gas-fired power capacity secured earlier this year after two capacity auctions may now be scrapped ...



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    you left out a bit

    ...as developers continue to warn that the projects are becoming increasingly unviable.

    Last week, the Single Energy Market (SEM) committee, which is made up of representatives from the energy regulators in Ireland and Northern Ireland, decided to reject a proposal to modify energy market rules. 

    The proposal?

    The proposals would have given more flexibility to capacity contracts if projects are held up by third party delays such as planning objections or delayed grid connections.

    As opposed to...

    Under the current system, which is designed to incentivise the completion of projects on time, developers can only receive a set number of capacity payments during a ten-year period. If a project is delayed then this fixed revenue stream will be eroded, while projects that are not completed by a final long-stop date will have their capacity contracts terminated.

    Have to say, I can't disagree with the SEM decision but at the same time the whole system could probably do with an overhaul from the sounds of it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭ginger22




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,983 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    The Irish Academy of Engineering have today released their review of Government report on Security of Energy Supply of Ireland's Electricity and Natural Gas Systems.

    It's only a few pages and well worth reading. It pulls no punches!

    image.png

    It goes on to say,

    image.png

    It's great to see such clarity emerging and with some luck the Minister "in charge" of the Energy portfolio at Government (God Help us all!), might actually start seeing reality. He's likely blinded by his arrogance though, and safe in his belief that the cargo bike grant will save us all!

    http://iae.ie/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Response-to-Energy-security-report.pdf



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Will be interesting to see whats in the final energy security review when its released



  • Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    He’s deluded

    if he wants this to progress, the state needs to pick up the entire tab



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Cue the complaining that the state is picking up the tab



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭F34


    But not if you actually work for a living. Funny that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Not sure what you're talking about here. The energy security review (all three wasted years worth of it) has been published and released. It consisted of one year of the department sitting around scratching its hole (during which there was a change of government), six months going out to tender to find someone to write the report, nine to twelve months (exact time not revealed) producing the report, three to six months sitting on it before release. The next step is to produce a policy document for what we do going forward. That's going to take another six months (the same length of time that the 3 year report was originally supposed to take). Nothing happens fast in Irish government. Meanwhile, the Irish Academy of Engineering says the report isn't worth the paper it's printed on, says the review period is way too short, and that any policy recommendations made on the back of it will be based on a fundamentally flawed assessment.

    Like most people on this thread have been saying all along, Eamon Ryan's ambitions for 2030 and beyond are based on pure hopium, unsupportable technology optimism, and -- even it were technologically feasible (which it isn't) -- is completely uncosted and almost certainly ruinous. I hope you've read every line of the IAE's response. Even within it's diplomatic use of language it's pretty clear anyone with a modicum of engineering knowledge realises that Ryan's plans are a gargantuan clusterfark.

    http://iae.ie/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Response-to-Energy-security-report.pdf



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,912 ✭✭✭Danno


    The government signed up for this shyte, the government should pay - they've made millions upon millions out of carbon taxes going back over the last decade and a half or more now.

    When ireland inc signed up for these climate targets it should have been put to a vote by the people before any gombeen politician was let near the sign here line.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,997 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Very interesting Prime Time on now looking at the Derrybrien wind farm and the havoc it created on the very environment that they claim to preserve.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Here's an interesting graph from Pielke, showing how utterly unrealistic current Green policy approaches are to tackling climate change:

    image.png

    The idea behind this graph is to capture the relationship between global energy demand growth and fossil fuel usage. Nobody doubts that global energy use is going to increase -- all the IPCC SSP scenarios incorporate this, even the lowest energy SSP1 in which energy growth doesn't peak until 2070. If carbon targets are to be met, fossil fuel use must decrease, even while energy use increases.

    So how are we doing? The graph takes each year of the past six decades and places it on two axes of energy consumption growth versus fossil fuel consumption growth. The first recent pandemic year was hailed for its lower usage of fossil fuels, ignoring the fact that overall energy use was down too. Those who pointed out that we needed to achieve the same annual reduction every year going forward tended to ignore that the year was economically crushing.

    The bottom line is that when you graph energy growth versus fossil fuel growth, they march in lockstep. It's a straight line graph. The green quadrant marks the region where energy increases but fossil fuel use decreases. We've been inside it -- barely -- once in sixty years. That was during the first Arab oil embargo. We need to be way inside it to meet 2050 targets (the solid blue line) and even further inside it to meet 2030 targets (dashed blue line).

    Clearly we are not within an asses roar of meeting targets, nor can current Green policies get us there. As we see on a smaller scale in Ireland, Greens focus on virtue signalling within the developed economies and do nothing to address the offshoring of dirty energy consumption to eastern Asia. Instead they end up with patently crazy greenwashing endeavours like shipping unsustainable wood pellets half way round the world to burn in a converted coal plant, or the latest lunacy (and quite likely corruption) with the Canadian-German hydrogen alliance. Personally, I hold the Green's responsible for a complete diversion away from meeting climate targets and for contributing to deaths in poorer countries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    It is easy to see: big decisions are rarely made in countries anymore but in the EU, by a small group of 'influencers', backed up by big money and institutions. They will try their best to put these things into EU law so that countries can be punished if they step out of line w the exception of France and Germany of course.

    Watch how the coming EU digital 'currency' is going to be promoted, pushed and advertized. We have to remember how the euro started.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Diesel over €2 a litre now... Green policy in action. Get out of them diesels.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭ps200306


    My understanding is the consultation is open until the end of this month (which the IAE response is what you linked to) and the actual energy security review is not yet completed.

    That's a question of semantics. We can agree that it's taken three years to get a published report, now there is a consultation period (till the end of this week), and a set of policy recommendations will be drafted thereafter. Even after that there will still be a "review". However, the report that Minister Bruton promised to commission in 2019 has now been done and dusted, and is published.

    The problem now is that the "mitigation options" listed by Ryan have been carved in stone -- or at least heavily influenced -- by the already existing report. Unfortunately the report itself was heavily influenced by Ryan's policy preferences so the importation of fracked gas is off the table. The IAE says that Ryan's list are the wrong options. They also say that we are going to be importing fracked gas regardless of which path we choose. The likelihood is that this whole process is just a rubberstamping exercise for what Ryan wants. The lunatic needs to be got out of office before he ruins us.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Honestly not being pedantic here, but what energy security review (ESR) report has been published?

    Afaik only the consultation document has been published, no report has. If there has, can you link to it because even the most recent references to it in the Dail are from Sept where ER stated the ESR was ongoing.

    Maybe the end report will have little more than that consultation document, wouldn't be the first time, but I'm asking in case I have actually missed the publication of the ESR document



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Funding avenues for fossil fuel projects are becoming more constrained with Lloyds joining Nat West in ceasing funding for any such projects.

    Via Euronews: Britain’s biggest bank will no longer finance new oil and gas fields 




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    I thought the argument was there government subsidised.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Globally, more and more governments are losing in court due to poor climate action plans.

    We saw it here back in 2019 when the govt lost to FoIE and we ended up with a far more solid CAP as a result.

    Now we see the same thing has happened over in the UK which has forced the govt there to go back to the drawing board and come up with a whole new climate action plan that shows how the govt plans to achieve emissions reductions rather than just having the targets without any intention of hitting them.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Irrelevant the targets are not binding you set them yourself. They can be revised up or down. Court is saying you need to have a plan that's all.



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  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't believe any govt so far has revised targets downwards after losing the cases, instead they put in more concrete plans with actual actions as to how to achieve the targets.

    Do you know of any that have done it the way you suggest, after they lost a case such as this.



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