Man of many user names, has an obsession with schools calling people out and oddly enough Clegg
Frawley is interesting. Leinster have not seen him as an oh, until recently. Is this at the behest of AF? Crowley may be a future international 10, but he's got a lot of work to do. I think he has the tools. I suppose Burns and RB are out of the window ight now. Carty just doesn't have it! Harry Byrne is really an afterthought right now. There's no form or match time to gauge his level.
It will be interesting to see if Frawley does get a run for Leinster. Will he be up to the level? What about Joey? One half decent match and it's like he's the second coming! It's precarious at out half.
I think Casey has the 9 shirt in his grasp for Munster. Murray isn't near as fast working around the park. I would guess that GR and his staff need Casey to implement the game plan.
Who's he?
I think Wycherley should be backed as first choice (for Munster), seems solid in the scrum and his handling is excellent. Loughman is in great form. Both could get international game time if they show enough.
I feel like Killer's race is run, like Cian Healy's. I wouldn't have either of them near a first choice provincial/international squad to be honest.
Ya, I don't think we can read anything into that single game tbh, especially as the EI players were meeting up the week following that game.
There's also Loughman in the conversation too. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out as Kilcoyne hasn't exactly started the season brilliantly. I'd have a lot of time for Wycherly.
That's not the point I'm making tho. I think, regardless of our opposition / horses for courses, there's a really strong chance POM would've been selected ahead of Conan as he was in significantly better form.
The one game before the EI tour happened Wycherley started. Tbh I probably went out on a limb saying he's first choice because in truth we have a small number of games to go on, We'll probably know for sure by the end of 2022.
I agree he was, I wasnt saying his selection was unjustified!, its just when you have 2 quality players you must choose what benefits the team more and Ireland had a more balanced back row & lineout option with O'Mahony than with Conan.
It's just a matter of time until Frawley is second choice. Leinster have indicated recently that they want to try him at 10 following his Ireland success. Injury has scuppered that and it's only 6 games into the season.
Also I'm not sure that Frawley is 4th choice at Leinster.
Harry Byrne was released to play for Lansdowne before getting Injured again.
Id say its a safe bet that at the point in time Frawley is 3rd and pushing for 2nd if he can stay injury free himself.
The one difference is that, with the new coaching team in at Munster, I’m not sure we can definitively say Crowley is 3rd choice.
And in a sense, Frawley is even 4th choice at Leinster behind the perennially injured Harry Byrne too. In a few weeks, it could become clear that Crowley is 2nd choice and Frawley 4th.
Having said that, I think Sexton’s minutes have been frontloaded this season due to the EI tour, so don’t expect to see him getting many more regular league starts this season, so think Frawley will see a decent amount of game time there.
Where would you rate kicking in terms of importance to Ireland’s game plan? It’s way down, tbh. Fwiw, I think his kicking has improved; he’ll never get the hangtime Murray gets but it’s not like JGP is an elite kicker either, as TRC mentioned.
And I don’t think the other options have demonstrated higher performances at the things most important to the Irish game plan; speed of service, tempo and accuracy of pass. (I think Casey has the best pass of all our 9 options tbh).
Wtf is up with this place at the moment??
Jesus Christ he’s re registered again, more paranoid nonsense. We just need a mention of schools to complete this round.
^
What a weird post
:D
They've included Frawley and Crowley at the expense of Ross Byrne, Carty and Burns so we can assume the latter three are done. Unless they've big plans for H Byrne it would appear that this is it.
The coaches really seem to see something in Frawley, even if he's a 10 slash 12, it's a big vote of confidence in a guy who is in single figures of appearances.
The issue to me is that I'm not sure Frawley is the 3rd choice 10.
He is imo the utility back who will be the 3rd 10 in the squad so they are investing game time in him but he isn't 3rd choice 10.
If Sexton goes down (ala Wallace in the world cup warmups) badly injured Carberry starts and someone else is called into the squad who will wear the 22 shirt.
I don't know who that is.
That sounds like third choice. Its not just the amount of games, its also the calibre of game.
Frawley is essentially second choice at Leinster. Sexton will play about two more games in the URC and big games in Europe. Ross Byrne will be starting most games and there'll be plenty of chances for Frawley to appear off the bench and, if he makes a fist of it, to take the 10 jersey.
Yeah I wouldn't have him there personally. I'm just trying to make sense of it. In certain circumstances, he can be a valuable player to bring off the bench. But I agree that if we're chasing a game, he's not what you want. And if JGP goes down injured early on, it's a big problem. But they've shown no intention of moving Murray on, they even gave him a new central contract. So they clearly see a lot of value in him. And look, I think the Irish coaches have earned a bit of trust given the results they've delivered over the last 12 months. But the current coaching ticket will ultimately be judged on the next 12 months, not the last 12 months. And if Ireland have a successful world cup and Murray is a part of that, I've no issues. But if things go off the rails like they did 4 years ago, I think the persistence with Murray will be one of those selections that could justifiably be criticised after the event.
I actually think Casey's kicking game has come on a bit of late. And box-kicking isn't as important an attribute in an Ireland scrum half as it was in previous years. We don't do it anywhere near as much in the middle third of the pitch. And we have more effective exit options in Lowe or Stockdale. JGP's box kicking isn't world class either.
Quality post, fair play
He did fine in NZ, but I don't know that this is an exceptional skill he has over other options. I'd also question his ability to have the necessary impact if we're chasing a game.
I'd have concerns over Casey's kicking game, it was quite poor relative to his peers. Nothing that can't improve of course, but picking him over other options who've demonstrated higher performances doesn't make sense to me.
Yea, id see that as a problem either way, crowley or frawley. I honestly dont believe Crowley will be third choice though very long, if he even still is.
It’s not a concern that Frawley will be third choice at leinster?
No more than Crowley being 3rd choice at Munster. The guy from PSOM is complaining that Frawley is picked while 3rd choice at Leinster, but wants Munster's 3rd choice 10 (Crowley) picked ahead of him. I'm just pointing out his hypocrisy.
I mean, yeah it's a worry. But our whole situation at 10, and the fact that Ireland's entire world cup hopes rest on a 38 year old not getting injured is also a worry.
I’m guessing Crowley would need to pass Carberry at Munster, or at least Healy. Which seems fair to me.
Edit: i personally think crowley will be number 1 at munster by the end of the year, but he needs to prove that first.
And yet, the Three Red Kings guy from PSOM was ranting on twitter that Munster's Jack Crowley should have been ahead of Frawley.
Crowley, who is 3rd choice at Munster...
Wouldn't take anything that guy says seriously.
Listening to the Provincial State of Mind podcast and they made an interesting point that Frawley being picked as third choice in his own province is a weird choice.
Not because he isnt good enough, but when will he play 10? So, he plays ireland A and maybe the Fiji test, and then he barely plays any 10 until the 6 nations, and no big games?
That seems untenable to me. Second choice is one thing because of squad rotation but third seems kind of nuts.
edit: This is me paraphrasing what was said in first two paragraphs. I might have misunderstood or got it wrong.
McCloskey is absolutely the beneficiary of Aki and Hume's misfortune and even Frawley's redeployment to out-half, but that said, he's one tweaked hamstring away from starting against South Africa. After that, who knows? Plenty of guys have got a shot through some sort of lucky break, where they diverge is that some guys seize those chances and don't give the jersey back, others fade back into the chasing pack.
And in fairness to Farrell, he's shown that he's not overly loyal to anyone.
I think you're right that he's not in the top group of SHs in the country but...Farrell selects him for very particular reasons. Could he play the game Ireland like to play if JGP got hurt after 15 minutes, Im not sure. Do I want him coming on if we are ahead in a WC semi final with 15 minutes to go...I'm guessing Farrell does, or at least it worked out very well for him in NZ. Could be very different next year but his inclusion here says something and if he is in the match day 23 against SA I'd say Farrell's mind is made up.
The one thing Murray is head and shoulders above the others is his defence esp when we're defending our try line.
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