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Child Item

Harrassed by Garda taking a photo

chewed

Today I was walking around the town and saw 2 Gardaí telling a homeless guy outside a shop to move on. I had my camera with me and proceeded to take a few shots. As I was walking off, one of the Gards came up to me and told me I wasn't allowed to take photos of them. I informed him that it was a public space and I could take any photos I wanted. He then said to me that he didn't give me permission to take his photo. I told him I didn't need any permission from him. He then just says "Fair enough", and walked off.

A few minutes later they drove very slowly past me and glared at me. A few mins later down another side street they drove slowly by and stared at me. I felt very intimidated by the whole experience.

I assume I'm correct in what I informed him about my rights to take photos in public?

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bad2thebone

I can imagine the guard's driving past the photographer and looking at him. They probably don't give a toss in the big scheme of things. But they'd enjoy being gangsta like for the **** and giggles.

They wouldn't even remember what he looks like a few days later. They're entitled to be messers too on the Job.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713505#Comment_119713505

Yes indeed. One must praise the selfless patriotism of the do-gooder who decided to support the GRA's request free of charge on this occasion. Hopefully a Scott Medal nomination will soon follow.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119712779#Comment_119712779

It is not invasive in the slightest, I am really surprised at your attitude, having admired many of your photos. Have you never looked at historical photos taken in cities, or, photos taken of people at beaches or sitting in parks and a million other situations?

Imagine all those photos with every human scrubbed from them, they would be utterly meaningless. I jaust can't get my head around this attitude.

Fionne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713505#Comment_119713505

Bodycam footage wouldn't be posted on social media though. That's the difference, too many people think everyone and everything is fair game for social media entertainment these days, whether it's people photographing car accidents, people falling around drunk, whatever. Yes, if you're in a public place there's little you can do about it but that doesn't mean you have to be comfortable with it.

If your motivation to whip out your phone is a sudden rush of anticipation of how many reactions you might be able to muster up on social media, then keep it in your pocket IMO.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713552#Comment_119713552

The poster implied that he targeted the gardai here. It wasn’t some random innocent foto. They said he cannot take fotos of them, and he replied that he can. Why not say he was not taking a foto of them specifically? He wanted to cause an issue and her a reaction , and he did, and then cries foul.

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713425#Comment_119713425

It's not the only reason. I'm not going to sit around giving examples. What I'm saying is that people are naturally more self conscious and hesitant when being recorded... training or not.

Of course you don't have to, but why are you afraid of sharing your motive for it? After all you came on here looking for our opinions. Your account is anonymous after all?! I can only assume your motive wouldn't bode well for your argument.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713585#Comment_119713585

Makes no difference whatsoever to the issue. Be it a council worker picking up litter, a lolipo lady letting kids cross, the guards or fire brigade doing their thing, it's all in public and there should be no sense of there being anything to hide.

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713484#Comment_119713484

Am i not allowed to disbelieve you ? because your not very believable .

I wonder if you were asked to stop but declined due you your own reasons what ever they may be.

He told you that you didn't have his permission to take his picture. How could that be untrue ? either you did or you didn't.

what were your intentions apart from to provoke a reaction that you didnt get ? and ya you seem to be only one you are concerned about in this interaction,

see above links for ref

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713407#Comment_119713407

As a private citizen that’s fair enough…but you could only request it.

Gardai in the course of doing their job and ‘telling’ a member of the public, not requesting but telling them that they were not allowed to photograph and to cease conducting a quite legal act ? It’s no great surprise that in 2022 that peoples opinions of and in that force is not exactly at an all time high….

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713142#Comment_119713142

While there is no law against taking a photograph in a public place there is rights as to where it can be published/posted.

There is reasonable expectations of privacy even in a public place. While you were entitled to take the photograph the Garda had rights to control the use of his image.

What dose this mean. If he stated that under the data protection act he was advising you that you had data relating to him (his image) and he did not wanted it posted on social media then of you continually posted and published it he could have a case against you under the data protection act.

There is interesting interpretation's of what can and is allowed to be published in a data sense.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/women-who-eat-on-tubes-stranger-shaming-social-media-1403346-Apr2014/

For instance if you took and published a photograph of a TV liciencee inspector or a Traffic warden in the line of there work and published it on social media it would be construed as harassment of a person carrying out there duty. Similar with a bin man or publishing photographs of a homeless person.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713200#Comment_119713200

As a press photographer you can make the claim that the photograph is in the public interest. However similar if you published a photo identifying and naming a TV licence Inspector during his day to day work and published his name it might not be considered to be in the public interest. If you photographed him after giving evidence after a court day then it would be construed as public interest.

If @chewed actions were construed to be an action to harass or intimidate a Garda ( multiple publishing on social media with inappropriate text added) then the actions could have data protection issues.

If @chewed only took them to make a complaint to the Garda Ombudsman then there would be no issue

thefallingman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713657#Comment_119713657

I hear you Strumms and agree with you, but in this case i don't think the gardai were doing anything wrong, or using a heavy hand, correct me if i'm wrong op. I see plenty of homeless shooting up in doorways at best, and defecating in them at worst.

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713552#Comment_119713552

You make a very fair point. I guess I can't really square my thoughts on the matter. And I do love the results of (some) street photography. I've no problem at all taking photos of some random surfers falling off their boards in Lahinch, but wouldn't ever dream to take photos of the very same people sitting out side Spooneys eating an ice cream. One for me to ponder, alright.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713643#Comment_119713643

Not correct even the press seldom publish the faces of workers that are working in a public place.

It is not of public interest and anybody carrying out there work in a public place has expectations of privacy. If the purpose of the photograph is to demean or harass then it's definitely in breach of DP.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713577#Comment_119713577

The Garda may not be personally comfortable with it, but they do have to accept it, given that they work primarily in a public place.

Nuance in any such law to outright ban photographing of Gardai just wouldn't work, so it would end up being a total ban IMO. I know it's a bit of a false dilemma, but if it was the case of

A) total ban on photography of Gardai, vs.

B) making some Gardai feel uncomfortable, and prosecuting those who do actually harass Gardai,

the only real option is B.

chewed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713651#Comment_119713651

What are you talking about!?

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119712775#Comment_119712775

Did you miss the part about the two drivebys? How much persistence do you need?

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713070#Comment_119713070

He'd be sure to get hardassed if he done that

Adrian.Sadlier

Some extreme reactions to the OP here - including some allusions to physical violence?

My understanding of the law is that people can not have an expectation of privacy in a public place. Anybody is free to take a photo of anybody else in a public place. It is the subsequent publishing of such an image that can be problematic https://michaelodohertybl.com/photography-and-a-persons-right-to-privacy/#:~:text=It%20is%20generally%20accepted%20that,taking%20of%20it%20per%20se..

However, normally a bit of common sense and polite interaction can sort out most issues. I take the odd street photo, sometimes asking permission, sometimes not.And I have taken a few photos of Gardai, sometimes involved in moments of conflict, sometime simply eating an ice cream. No big deal and all legitimate. However, on every occasion where the Gardai made any comment, it has always been to state that"you can't take photos of me"

All Gardai who commented, incorrectly stated the law. It was always meant to intimidate. This is not poor training but a sign of an approach that is akin to bullying or threatening. An "us" and "them" approach. Their role is to uphold the law. Not falsely interpret it. How can they expect to win public support or to expect the public to trust them?.

In non Gardai situations it is quite different. If someone objects to me taking their photo where I ask, I simply say OK, give them a smile and move on. If I did not ask them and took their photo without their knowledge, and they subsequently objected, my reaction would entirely depend on their approach.If they were civil, I would usually show them the image I took - it usually ends up with me sending a copy of it to them! If they still wanted it deleted and asked politely, I would politely agree.

However, if they were not civil, I would take a different approach. The more obnoxious or demanding they become, the less likely I would be to comply with their wishes. After all, that's all they are, their wishes, not their rights.

However, I would not take photos of someone in a compromising position, just to exploit it. That would not only be "nasty", it would also be illegal. Unless they were breaking the law and it was for journalistic purposes and in the general interest (I do not include tabloid "titillation" to be in the public interest).

Nor would I take photos of children without the parents permission, and I would always show these images to the parents, offer to send them to them, and delete any they did not like.

Finally, if someone were to get really stroppy and threaten me, I would always delete the images. I can un-delete them later. And I always shoot to 2 cards at the same time 😁

ablelocks

did this thread get moved from after hours? there hasn't been as many posts in the whole photography forum for months...!

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119714753#Comment_119714753

It was in photography when I posted earlier so I don't think so.

It has a catchy title to be fair!

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058266414/harrassed-by-garda-taking-a-photo

Maybe next time proceed to give the homeless guy a €20 note instead of using him for free for your personal gratification.

John_Rambo

On a side note, Anytime I've asked a Gardai for a photo/portrait (including one for an online & regular exhibition) they've always been super cool. I get the impression they're told it's a good idea to be agreeable.

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713074#Comment_119713074

But you have no problem watching the news or reading the paper which contains many examples of photography with no permission from the subject...

tayto lover

We’re they wearing their hats? It’s very important that they wear their hats.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119714133#Comment_119714133

Seems to be to be quite reasonable for members of An Garda Siochana to keep an eye on someone who clearly appeared to them to be behaving in a suspicious manner. In common with every sensible citizen of this great country of ours, I laud them for their professionalism.

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119715787#Comment_119715787

Usually there is a news story and people are aware of journalists and that things are being recorded. Or it's some kind of feel good crowd, group picture, where no one is specifically being targeted.

But to wander around directly taking pictures of people without their permission is entitled, ignorant of the targets feelings, concerns, right to privacy and it's just creepy.

triddles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713481#Comment_119713481

Haha He was perfectly entitled to do what he did. Christ the absolute snowflakes on here.

[Deleted User]

my opinion on this (not that anyone asked but), is that while it may be legal it doesn’t make it okay. It’s just not cool to take pictures of folks if they don’t want to be. I wouldn’t like you taking mine. Maybe it’s not illegal, fair enough, but human decency it’s necessarily restricted to what is or isn’t legal. If it were me I’d just delete it if they’re clearly uncomfortable because it’s not worth the aggro. Seems to me that maybe you need to have a think about things that may be legal, but regardless might upset you & realise that just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716661#Comment_119716661

Entitled? By that logic the Garda is entitled to ask that his privacy he respected & he’s entitled to do his job without unnecessary photo shoots. As I said before, it might well be legal, but that’s an irrelevance.

triddles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119716672#Comment_119716672

You and everybody are entitled to take a photo of anybody in a public place. Course its not an irrelevance. Snowflakes the lot of ya. Is the word PUBLIC lost on people? There is no right to privacy in a PUBLIC place. Jesus it isnt a hard concept to grasp.