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NI Census 2021

FrancieBrady

British: 31.8%

Irish: 29.1%

Northern Irish: 19.8%

British and Irish (only): 0.6%

British and Northern Irish (only): 8%

Irish and Northern Irish (only): 1.8%

British, Irish & N Irish (only): 1.5%

Other: 7.4%

The number identifying as 'British' has fallen 9% in 10 years. Those identifying as Irish up 4%.

Is the time right to call a border poll on these figures and the fact that Unionism no longer commands a majority?

My own view is that it is that it is reasonable to call one in 3-5 years.

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blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119712185#Comment_119712185

Who said anything about being fooled? If you are resorting to putting words in other poster's mouths to bolster your argument, it actually weakens it.

It is not the first time that negotiations on something broke down at the last minute and it won't be the last.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119712095#Comment_119712095

Sure. the civil services of both countries and the respective leaders got fooled by 'square brackets'. 😁 I suppose May got her wires crossed too when she got gazumped by Foster when she negotiated the WA.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119712087#Comment_119712087

You will on the Vlaanderen version of Boards.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119712031#Comment_119712031

Wires got crossed, it happens. At the end of the day, SF couldn't accept a Minorities Languages Act instead of an Irish Languages Act.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119712026#Comment_119712026

You won't have posters saying that Belgium is a failed state though.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711624#Comment_119711624

This is tiresome. No, I will not prolong this argument - it is going nowhere. Sectarianism was built into the fabric of NI from the begining. It was its raison d'etre - a Protestant state for a protestant people.

It is quite clear that those days are gone. The fact that an election that does not give a protestant majority means no Assembly. Yea, that is democracy as understood by the Democratic Unionist Party. If only the 'B' Specials were still around to enforce their will.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119712003#Comment_119712003

So May and Varadkar and both civil services got fooled...they should have been aware of the 'square brackets'?

I will let your latest absurd defence of the DUP speak for itself.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711025#Comment_119711025

The Walloons and Flandriens try their best.

I think they had the longest running hung parliament/assembly before Stormont outdid them.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711999#Comment_119711999

Text in square brackets is unagreed text. Simple as. Why people did what they did is a question for them but the agreement wasn't done.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711963#Comment_119711963

Again, you are treating the discussion with contempt.

Anyone with a clue of how things work diplomatically knows that signals went out that a deal had been done. It worked exactly the same way when the GFA was agreed...the leaders were summoned for the photo-ops.

The two copies – hard and electronic – represent the text of an Accommodation Sinn Féin believed it had reached with the DUP, an understanding shared by the British and Irish governments that weekend.

This was precisely why Prime Minister Theresa May and Taoiseach Leo Varadkar were at Stormont on Monday February 12.

Are you saying the Irish government sent Varadkar when there was no deal?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711669#Comment_119711669

That's not the gotcha moment you think. The text on languages was in square brackets, anyone who has had any involvement in negotiating such deals is fully aware that means the text is unagreed.

https://www.itu.int/en/wcit-12/Pages/treaties.aspx

"Square brackets are put around text that has been drafted but on which there is still a degree of debate – the brackets indicate the section of the text that still requires further discussion. This makes it easier for the delegates to follow the negotiations.

Inserting square brackets is a way of marking text that needs further discussion, enabling delegates to keep moving forward on the rest of the text. Removing them is an indication of final agreement being reached."

Speedline

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711624#Comment_119711624

Could we have a few examples of the 'ghetto' communities in West Dublin you seem to know all about?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711620#Comment_119711620

A deal was done after a year on the Irish language (which wasn't the only reason the Executive was collapsed- the small matter of corruption at a high level was a factor too). May and Varadkar even came to Belfast to welcome it.

That deal was rejected by shadowy figures in Unionism (not the first time Arlene was forced to go back on agreements, who will ever forget how she left May hanging over the WA) and so the executive stayed down for 2 further years.

https://eamonnmallie.com/2018/03/dup-account-talks-not-stacking-eamonn-mallie-brian-rowan/

Let's be accurate.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119710132#Comment_119710132

Sam you give this as evidence of a failed state. A big claim.

any chance yet of a few examples of these sectarian shootings you say are ongoing in the north - or you could correct it?

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711025#Comment_119711025

Exactly. Institutions down for 3 years over an Act for a language that is basically unused in daily life. Approx (not sure of exact figures) 0.2% of people submitted their recent census in Irish and it was ok to refuse to operate institutions. Every single unionist rep at all levels oppose the NIP and yet we are being lectured here that it is wrong to democratically refuse to attend the institutions. You couldn’t make it up.

the census was very useful in giving us a true sense of the use of Irish in ni

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711025#Comment_119711025

The governance the Northern Irish citizens are responsible for is devolved an it has failed, repeatedly in peace and in conflict war.

John Hume devoted his career to trying to come up with a new way to govern because it had failed and we all thought one had been found but that has failed too. There is currently no devolved government/executive.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711167#Comment_119711167

How is criticising SF for collapsing the Assembly over a relatively minor issue of the Languages Act defending Unionism? It is criticising SF, no more, no less. That you see criticism of SF as automatically being a defence of unionism is interesting.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119711025#Comment_119711025

What is it about Unionism and Loyalism that attracts you to defend them at every turn?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119709411#Comment_119709411

It is a regional government, not a state government.

Like no state government would have stopped functioning over three years because of a language act.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119710682#Comment_119710682

Yes sam I saw the headline but I went on and listened to what she actually said. That headline is not accurate from the Irish news. Read on same post what rte reported “Arlene Foster told RTÉ's Tommie Gorman that she would likely leave in the event of a united Ireland”.

it is more accurate but still slightly spun. I can find nowhere she said she WOULD leave

Sam Russell

@downcow

Did you see the headline in post #286 - Arlene Foster insists she would move away.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119708618#Comment_119708618

Sam any chance of a few examples of these sectarian shootings you say are ongoing in the north?

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119708618#Comment_119708618

Exactly. She said “I think I would leave”. I said she said she “may leave”. You said she said she “would leave”. Now who was most accurate?

FraserburghFreddie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119709140#Comment_119709140

Agreed,cowards intimidating the public and hiding in ditches like rats to ambush legal representatives.The depressing thing about it is the people who glorify and hero worship these criminals.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119709317#Comment_119709317

Unbelievable, if you think that answer will fool anyone.

Northern Ireland as a 'state' has not and is not functioning. It has taken an international agreement to give it some semblance of a normal democracy and even that has failed to bring stability of governance - regardless what you think of the quality of the governance. So stop trying to tiresomely divert.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119709241#Comment_119709241

Last I checked the Westminister government was still in place.

I take it that you believe that this State has been governed well over the last 100 years.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119709100#Comment_119709100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119709140#Comment_119709140

Has the entity known as Northern Ireland been able to govern itself?

Nope, it has failed and even with an internationally binding agreement to oversee it in place, is STILL without an Executive or Assembly.

Failed utterly.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119709100#Comment_119709100

The PIRA campaign was a bunch of criminals using politics to cover for their criminal behaviour. There was nothing glorifying about it.

FraserburghFreddie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119708724#Comment_119708724

Not to mention the race and drug wars around Dublin and surrounding areas.People being dismembered and gardai being attacked.It makes the news here in the UK also.

10000maniacs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119654583#Comment_119654583

At least Nationalists will not be giving them the ultimatum that the "Plantin o Ulstèr" invaders gave to our ancestors. "To Hell or to Connaught".

"To Hell or to Crossmaglen" maybe?

Before you reign in, it tongue in cheek. 😀