You'd wonder why the plug is been pulled here, millions spent on the place, and money wouldn't be a issue, finding staff to run the place was ment to be a issue
I think it would be a much fairer system if it reflected the inputs.
I have a high ebi, compact calving, getting as close to 300 days in milk as possible, automatic calf feeder, recording accurate dry off dates and feeding 1 ton of ration. Good grassland management and maximising grass in the diet. I'm treated the same as the guy feeding 2 ton in an indoor system. If I changed to milking the cows once a day I could milk as many as I like. Makes no sense - FACT. 🙄
But setting the band around 6500 to minimize the cumulative effect is the whole point. In the methodology used, in any country you like, if you push the band up then the organic N value by definition will go up too. That holds because more milk = more feed= more excretion of N. The same calculation that gives you 106 at 6500 would give you 118kg N at 7000.
Imagine the reaction if the system was published saying herds over 7000 are at 120kg N and over 8000 are 130kg N for example?
I agree with you. 8, 9k litres herds are getting away light. The band was set too low. And if lads were not feeding so much to calves, if they had compact calving and if they were recording dry off dates accurately there would be alot more over 6300 litres in reality. As I said, it was a very poor effort from teagasc in coming up with the bands. A guy feeding a ton is treated the same as the guys with the diet feeder and feeding 2 ton.
why sell rented property ,could you not remortage it to come up with the readies .I taught ics used do these sort of loans .Many acres are you after?
I would be slow selling anything but easy enough get back into property later on at any rate but you will rarely seen nice farms coming up
Setting the upper band at 7000kg would have resulted in a 118kg N outcome from the calculation for farms in the top category. As the number of farms between 6500 and 7000 is relatively small, the total impact on those farms at the higher level of output would have been more negative if 7000kg cut-off point were used. There will always be a cluster of farms around a certain cut-off point that feel hard done by but if you had say 6 bands then there would be even more famers complaining about being the wrong side of the line. More lines, more marginal cases.
In effect then, whether intended or not (!), the 8000+ litre herds are gaining most by the 6500kg banding as they are not being penalized for their 1500 litres of milk above the threshold. Also, for herds at say 7000, they can drive on now with no additional bands on the horizon to trip them up. The highest output herds have been well treated in this setup.
Your "best in class" department has us still holding onto the derogation.....by a thread.
I don’t know if it’s as clear-cut as that. From farm reps I’ve spoken to, the EU asked DAFM to “look at banding” but didn’t specify a deadline or what they wanted to see at the end of it.
DAFM then asked Moorepark to consider it and they jumped all over it, producing more figures and details than you could shake a stick at. DAFM ran with it and are now being the best boys in class with the EU.
This might not be the full story either but what’s clear is that DAFM and Moorepark are very enthusiastic for banding, and they’re claiming (as ever) that the big boy made them do it.
I'm not disputing that fact. If only they set the band @ 7000 litres like the milk recording it would be much fairer is what I was saying. Also I would probably be under it if I was feeding milk to calves and not giving accurate dry off dates on ICBF.
Teagasc were given the job of coming up with the bands and they only made a half arsed effort at the task.... FACT. See if I write fact there it makes it more true apparently 😉.
Had to take the wife out to breakfast this morning to talk her into selling a rental property to buy land.... Bit more work needed to bring her around yet maybe.
From recent Oireachtas debate on banding.....
Bill Callanan DAFM
I will address the issue of banding, which is what the Deputy is getting at. From our perspective, we were operating a single band across all cows. Administratively, that was easy for us. People might not realise it, but the Department performs an administrative check on every single farm for nitrates compliance. The checks are not universal, but we perform checks comparing single farm payments versus farms' animal identification and movement, AIM, data, that is, their livestock, in respect of every farm in the country. It is a large check and quite a number of farmers are non-compliant and suffer a penalty as a consequence.
Moving from a single band will be a challenge, but we are putting our hand up to do that. At European level, most countries were working a banding system and the Commission was adamant that it was a minimum requirement in terms of discussions-----
It was the Commission that made Ireland introduce banding?
Banding is an EU requirement, not something dreamed up by our own government. Fact.
It is punishment because I'm going over the 250kg. What are the fines like? I believe you can sell entitlements next year with no clawback? I always followed all the rules and now I feel as though I'm getting blaguarded. Maybe time to break the immoral rules as they say. I'm being limited to 2.3 cow/Ha while teagasc are promoting signpost farms as the saviour and they are all stocked at 3+.
Wouldn’t look on it as a punishment …..I do think those bands are a load of ……. Though …if anywhere near 6300 then you’ll be over it pretty quick through maturing stock alone ….drive on into the higher band and to hell with it …..don’t get this stigma some seem to have re keeping less cows ….every herd has cows they could cull …less cows …better quality cows …more milk …more solids …less nitrates pressure .all positive
that 90% is fresh weight not DM based
That's a very grey area and a boogeyman been used to scare lads, when you see the slap on the wrists lads are getting for discharging slurry into waterways leading to fish kills, you logically need to dive into it a bit more, and work out what exactly they can actually do to farms like you mention above that aren't actually polluting our showing up on their radar, re high nitrates in adjoining waterways etc....
Bord bia? Will you give over, if they enforced their 90% grazed grass as part of your cows diet 90% of the herds in the country would be non-conpliant
Ya, based on what you supplied the previous 3 years. If it's over 6300 you are severely punished imo.
Bord bia can deem you non compliant as far as I’m aware, if you’re not bord bia approved the coop won’t collect your milk
It will for me atm any way, we’re just on the edge of heading into higher band and selling good kgs ms
for us here I’ll just focus on the percentages and less on the litres and still try sell the 560 kgs /cow
Not as clear cut as that anymore either. If no bps or whatever twill be council/ epa come into play afaik
Is the banding not coming next year
Whats the first band 5500? I sold culls the other day, grass gets scarce here in October. Had 6%empty so happy with that. Would we be better off feeding less meal to get under the 6600 band or 5500 one
If you didn't draw down the dole money you can basically drive on, nitrate derogation is basically goosed going forward anyways your just buying yourself a year our two at best given the 220kgs/ha been muted for 2024, what's the plan then give the 400 acre for ground to keep numbers at current levels our destock
just shy of 70 last month ….should break it this month ….agree
Because of the stupid banding legislation that teagasc wrote which says that if you produce a few hundred litres over 6300 then they are going to fine you.
I had a lad ringing me today as I was scanning looking for culls. I said with milk price at what it's at I'll be milking them on
Drive the f**k on, why would you dry up with potentially 70 cent a litre this winter
Seriously mixed around here ….lads who ran stock bulls from start going to be v busy ….lads who did just 2 /3 weeks Ai and let off bulls some not enough bulls are v mixed …..sexed semen saw v poor results and then the drought through august has seen cows scanned in calf come billing
here had 12% empty which was disappointing but at least can be explained ….cows fell off a cliff milk wise early June …..stomach/lungworms …..then let off a Hereford bull who despite testing fertile just wouldn’t do the job and finally had an abnormally large amount of twins last spring and despite having them all handled and checked pre breeding a lot showed empty …..luckily heifers 100% with 80% holding to fixed time serve
Was just doing my figures there. Will exceed 6300 by mid Sept. Average running at 6700 the last few years. But I'm only supplying about the 500kgMs and feeding about a ton.
If I have to cut 10 cows it's really going to hurt and I think they'll be looking for suppliers like me yet.
Meanwhile signpost farms are all stocked at 3+.
Would December milk do that as it’s be the smallest volume month milk wise ….
Fair point ….both work for us in different ways
