Putin's Russia is still only a child's play version of Communist Russia, especially in relation to Ukraine.
If Putin gets his dream of rebuilding the Soviet Union, then they will be back to going full Communist and we will see a return to the mass killings that defined that.
This tank originally went into service in 1947. Sure, these variants are newer and upgraded, but no amount of liptstick will make these pigs anywhere near ready for combat in 2020. If you thought the T-72 was bad, these are going to fare a lot worse.
We saw the same thing last week when it was announced that Greece were going to send 50 BMP1's to Ukraine. The BMP1 was obsolete as soon as it came off the production line, and was exposed when the Soviets deployed it in Afghanistan 50 years ago. There are lots of videos of these getting shredded, they posses no protection from anything other than small arms fire.
Lots of Ukrainians are going to get killed in these death traps. What exactly is the hesitation in providing Leopard 1's to Ukraine? It's an obsolete tank as well, but it gives the men inside a chance at surviving, unlike the scrap metal Soviet designs that are being sent over.
And yet they are rolling the Russian Army in them ,
But joe ...
I would use them as static positions behind the front to cover any strategic retreating or collection of injured soldier still have a decent cannon. Not like you would cry losing one.
That's it or more than likely in a Crew training role , nobody has said that they are going into from line service or where they are going to be used and in what capacity.
But it seems our experts cant see past YouTube clips
Call them mobile artillery and they'll do grand. Just don't roll them down the road where the big tanks hunt.
Never got why a Russian mercenary group named themselves after a German composer.
even ditch the turret and set them up as recovery or put on river fording equipment tones of uses. or WWII option we still allowed flame throwers ?
And even if we don't own guns ourselves, many of us have an interest as well as an internet connection.
Funny story, I burst out crying the first time I pulled the trigger of a gun. I was 4 or 5 years old and my dad let me take a shot at nothing in particular from his double-barrel. This was the mid 80s so none of us were wearing ear protection. He helped hold the wooden bit in front of the trigger because that thing was too heavy for someone of my stature at the time. Those things are fcuking loud, especially when you're a kid. Anyway, that bang and kick set me off. If he'd given me a go on the rifle instead, it would have been a much more pleasant experience. I'm no expert but there's a world of a difference between a number whatever shell and a .22 or whatever it is that you typically use for game birds.
I live in dublin now but if I still lived in connemara, I would likely own a gun and know more about them than I currently do. Loads of people do. It's not unusual to see people wandering around the fields, shotgun in hand, looking for ducks or pheasants (many of whose ancestors were raised and released by ourselves).
But since more than half of us live in cities, it's easy to forget that guns are really common in the countryside. They're just not fetishised, like the yanks are prone to do. Hell, even outside of here in mainland europe, guns are very common too but the populations treat them sensibly.
Yes, that's what I also said before, it's all scaremongering to erode westerner's support, and it's not even working anymore. But if we're taking crazy a.k.a. the BOMB, then let's go all in and also consider that Ukraine maybe have their own BOMBs.
There was one recently where engineers took a bmp turret and mounted in a trench on a automated system which they could operate away from the trench,the Russians flung , grenades ,rpgs, mortar's,heavy machine guns at it for weeks, before the Ukrainians abandoned the position for another one ,the Russians were flabbergasted when they found it .
They could in theory do the same with a 105mm rifled gun from the m55s
But as I said earlier the m55s are still a capable vehicle,they got a Fair amount of upgrades from the Israelis from armor protection to comms and gun optics and fire controls .
They are hardly getting some trabants
Thats gas. Were spitballing Ukraine thinking outside the box and using stuff that may have been wasted. Smart cookies.
I mean, they could come in at the end when the battle has been won, chasing down Russians retreating on foot or something equally comical.
More seriously though, whatever about the worth of the donation, this is also symbolic. Every country should be encouraging/shaming others into helping Ukraine here.
They won't be effective.
Russian and Ukraine armies originate from the Soviet army, both sides are highly competent in the use of artillery. I've seen plenty of evidence on both sides that demonstrates the competency of their artillery men. Counter battery fire is a very real thing - on a good day the other side can strike back at their opposing target within minutes. If you stuck a slow moving WW2 tank just behind the line, started lobbing unguided shells that have little range, had no accuracy and weren't even doing damage, you're going to get obliterated in short order.
Old Soviet **** from the 40's and 60's isn't going to cut it. It's just going to kill people.
This is interesting if true .
Can't see them getting Abrams at all , imagine the PR disaster If Russia captured on and put it on display in Moscow,
Leopards and cvs90s (swedish infantry fighting vehicles) would be a nice addition but they need to be trained to fight in them and trained to actually maintain them , including building new facilities especially for maintenance before you get a shot off in anger.
Socialist Govt in Berlin, solidarity with Russia still runs deep.
In fairness to Berlin they have been a solid friend to Moscow despite everything.
So why are your soviet friends dragging out ancient crap and putting it into a war, sorry " special military operation"?
hmmm Challenger 1 ? Or could be simply Abrams chassis/body no turret it's not a tank then put on a turret. or turret no gun ?
Wagner was known for being a bit of an anti-semite. He was also hyper nationalist and a darling of the Nazis. Modern Russia has lots in common with that 'ethos' for want of a better word.
Funny thing with Russians and their views on nazis:
When we think of naziism, we think about all the atrocities including concentration camps and all that. For Russians, nazis were just an enemy that they helped defeat in ww2. The camps and the atrocities aren't something that they see as abhorrent. They'll happily call their enemies nazis but it's not because of what we in the west would see as naziism, rather, it's nearly a catchall term for the enemies of Russia. Russians are perfectly content with atrocities. It's pretty much what defines them at this point.
wut?
To be fair the Russians under stalin/lenin would make the Nazis blush purges all that.
think they mean 60 year old tanks.
Cant see why not,espesially when Poland is getting them as a neigbour,and they could share the maintenance and spare parts,and training.
And US have many of the older M1s not in use.
Yeah they have load past the American use by date not so much for the Ukraine only need them at the moment last hoorah if you will.
my friends. confused
Spend 5 minutes talking to a Polak/Polka about Russia and Germany and they'll confirm exactly that. They tend to regard Germans highly enough these days despite their history but their opinions on Russians hasn't changed much, probably because the Russians haven't changed much.
Just as western people struggle to understand the Russian psyche, Putin failed to grasp the idea of Western resolve.
For his ilk, strength is exhibited by aggression. Strength is fear and strength is in your face. Strength is manliness. It is control and authority.
In Putin's eyes, the liberal freedom of the west is a sign of weakness. He sees decadence and a collapse of what, in Russian terms, are the traditional morals of society. What he failed to understand, like many a dictator before him, is that the freedoms we take for granted were hard earned. And once people have experienced them, they will not give them up lightly. The things that Putin saw as weaknesses - democracy, a free press, tolerance, openness to criticism - are in fact the very strengths upon which the west has been built and will do its utmost to defend. They are the non-negotiables.
He didn't expect that such crippling sanctions would be imposed. He didn't expect that such military support would be provided. He didn't foresee such unity from the 'soft-touch' allies of Ukraine. He certainly didn't predict that Ukrainians, including those living abroad, would fight to the death to give their children a better future, a future of hope in a country with said western values.
Put simply, history will paint him as another victim of Strongman Syndrome who failed to appreciate that strength and resolve are more than just a macho facade.
if any modern tanks were going to be donated, they would have been donated by now.
No doubt. Whatever the nazis were capable of, the Russians were capable of worse. And they still are as we see today. They just didn't have to have a reckoning about it through defeat.
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