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Child Item

How should married couples conduct their financial affairs?

Weesie

I am married 10 years & my husband has always refused to talk about finances. Until recently, I had no idea what he earned, what he spends, what he saves, what his pension entitlements are. However, I recently went to file a personal tax return & saw from his payroll details that he is earning twice my gross salary. He has always insisted on splitting everything 50/50 - childcare, mortgage, bills, property tax, ordering oil/gas (he will let us run dry, until I pay my 50%). I work full time & in addition to our split costs, I seem to always be the first to put my hand in my pocket for kids clothes, extracurricular activities, summer camps, the cleaner (which he was reluctant to get & has paid only once). I have also paid for all of the furniture, beds, soft furnishings, bed clothes, tvs etc. in our home. I'm not forced to do it; but if I didn't our home would be empty & look like student digs. We are both in our early 40s, with children under 10. In addition, I have also paid for the majority of Santa & birthday presents (for our kids & the parties they are invited to).

I am a public servant, so my pension (which isn't great, being the post 2013 Single Public Service Pension Scheme) is deducted at source, but I have no savings and quite literally not one cent left to myself at the end of every month. I buy my clothes in Pennies, use cheap creams/shampoos and don't really go out very often. Personally, I don't feel that this is right or fair. I'm in my early 40s, am educated to Masters level, I work really hard and have a gross annual income of €75,000+.

I have tried so many times to discuss this with my husband. He shuts down completely and either walks off or just say 'yea' and nothing changes. I have suggested counselling, sent emails, letters, texts - but nothing changes.

I am so hurt at this stage, that at times, I can't bear to be in the same room as him. I feel totally miserable and disrespected, yet he is living his best life - spending his money on his hobbies, pastimes, social life.

There is no question of spending money on a family holiday abroad or furnishings for the house. Those conversations go absolutely nowhere.

When we purchased our first home, we had to set up a joint account, but all he will put into this is 50% of the mortgage repayment, a few days before its due. The rest of the month, its either empty or overdrawn.

I really need advise as to what my rights are. I know this entire scenario sounds crazy... I'm not depressed and I don't have low self-esteem. I come from a loving 2-parent family, where my Dad was a compmete gent & prioritised his family. My parent's were so generous that they gave all of us money for our first homes, paid for our weddings, universities. Family was always the priority in my home growing up. The situation that I now find myself in seems to have evolved, as we have floated through the last decade, taking the good times as they came. I always thought things would change when we we married, had kids, bought a house together, matured, became more successful in our careers... but that has not happened.

My husband is an amazing father & my 2 kids adore him. But his disrespect and lack of trust in me has caused irreparable damage. Yet he seems to have no clue... & thinks all of this is normal. If I'm in bad form he makes references to my period, being tired or stress at work, almost turning his actions and their affect on our marriage back on me. He'll also bombard me with OTT, inappropriate affection to try keep me quiet and make the tension go away.

I really don't know what to do at this stage. Should I spend the rest of my life, with him in the driving seat and me losing myself bit by bit, for the sake of my kids? Deep down he actually is a nice guy, he loves his kids and I think he loves me. But it's like he's living in the 1950s and he believes that's the way life should be.

Any advice would be so greatly appreciated....

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Comments

spakman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633393#Comment_119633393

Up to each couple how they want to manage credit cards, there isn't some dogmatic rulebook.

Obviously if one partner isn't earning, then it doesn't make sense to use that approach. Again, it's not something that HAS to be followed verbatim, it's just a common approach that works for many people.

Is that OK with you?

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633659#Comment_119633659

is it okay with you I find it odd couples have personal money in a marriage?

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633612#Comment_119633612

I would agree with the secrecy bit and it could indicate a problem (maybe gambling?) although obviously we can't say for sure. At the very least she needs to get him to contribute half for things needed for the kids and house. She should also know what his retirement plans are, is he saving anything towards that?

spakman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633673#Comment_119633673

Yep, doesn't bother me in the slightest.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633253#Comment_119633253

exactly this for us. works just fine.

as far as OP issue goes id not be far off engaging the services of a professional who might advise her how to find out where her spouse's money goes and is. not sure if anyone has speculated where all his cash is going besides but if it isnt somewhere visible in terms of savings, investments or assets hes willing to speak about then......yeah imo youve more than a lack of shared financial outlook to be worried about

one last chance to him to play some fair amount of ball here but youd have to be very clear- this is either a heading for the rocks issue for you or it isnt, if you arent willing to get legal after the next discussion with him then id probably just advise to leave it, theres not many halfway steps left to you here

[Deleted User]

Edit: ignore, answer to question I asked was in the opening post.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633290#Comment_119633290

'pocket money ' for adults, really?

Just have your own account with your own money and a joint account for bills. It's not complicated.

spakman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633701#Comment_119633701

call it personal spending money if you find the term pocket money childish.

Its money you can spend on whatever you feel like, without impacting the usual household payments e.g. mortgage, groceries, utility bills etc

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633347#Comment_119633347

During the Celtic tiger I can still remember that disgusting advert by a Bank. It was about a young superficial couple with two dog's.

One dog was named terms and the other condition's.

One of the couple was asking who's taking terms and conditions out for a walk this evening ?

Then I think the advertisement was about terms and conditions for loans etc and how you could be superficial like the couple in the advert. Attractive, intelligent and have two beautiful dog's you can be degraded to terms and conditions on your relationship.

They were gearing people up for their manipulation of fast love,debt under the guise of two cute dogs and a lot of couples I know who read into the bu115hit are separated now.

The banks drew the finishing line and the people who are responsible for advertising are very clever.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633713#Comment_119633713

I have that too, it's called my salary paid into my personal account.

I really can't get over the amount of people on this thread getting their salaries paid into a joint account, it's actually quite shocking tbh. Seems incredibly old fashioned and controlling.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633701#Comment_119633701

Well you can call it whatever you like and the amount is obviously up to the couple to decide. In my own situation, my wife works as a nurse, not badly paid but not great. I make at least 8 times what she makes. Now, we could have separate accounts and just pay bills from that. The result would be that I have an enormous amount of personal money and she would have very little. Where would the fairness be there? For us it has always been put it all in the pot and take an equal amount out each.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633720#Comment_119633720

I think separate accounts or a separate joint account is fine for those of relatively equal income where they can cover all the bills.

It fails when one person has no significant income or where one has a significantly greater income where they could have a far better lifestyle. But, sharing this wealth may be ‘controlling’ apparently.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633740#Comment_119633740

I don't understand the last point: "sharing this wealth may be controlling"

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633748#Comment_119633748

Reference to o1s1n’s post

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633752#Comment_119633752

Ah ok, got it. Sharing is the new greedy I guess.

bcklschaps

OP, your husband is clearly squirreling away money to do a runner on you 🏃🏼‍♂️💨

Only joking

Firstly congrats on your joint incomes, very impressive 👍

Secondly, soo you both work in well paid jobs, and it sounds like you're husband puts in half the amount needed to run the house. (Generally speaking)

Instead of being over dramatic, why don't you simply point out that there are a few other things that need to be paid for and explain what they cost eg. Kids birthday parties, Christmas presents etc.

and just remember that on average men die about 10 years earlier than women, soo you'll likely get all the loot 💰 in the end, anyway.

sunshine2018

Sounds like you are having a tough time. This isn’t about money - it’s about respect and the state of your marriage. There is no right or wrong way to do your finances all coupes are different and what works for one couple might not work for another. His refusal to discuss it is appalling and not how happily married couples behave. Do you still want to be married to this man? You sound very unhappy. I suggest you get some advice around your options from a legal and financial perspective.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633719#Comment_119633719

and in the case of the OP, or the poster you were replying to?

My wife earns much less than the OP, I earn a lot more than the OP's husband.

how does that work out, exactly?

shootermacg

if 150K combined isn't enough for you, you really need to question your spending habits.

If a partner sees you as someone who wastes money, he'll generally withhold money for a rainy day. I know my wife has zero financial sense. We have a joint account, and she's basically not happy until it's empty every month.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119636465#Comment_119636465

In the case of the OP it was 225 combined. She is earning 75k and he earns 150k. He puts in half of the mortgage and bills. She is left to pay for furniture, kids clothes and activities etc. The mortgage is reasonably large, so I am not sure you have a huge amount left over on 75k after tax if you are covering most of the additional costs. On that combined salary the family should be living very comfortably with no money worries.

JimboJones99

I always get surprised that people really seem to get upset when this topic is brought up. Could it not actually be possible that this is not a scenario where one glove fits all?? Every couple and marriage is different and so what might seem reasonable for one might not suit another.

Personally, since my wife and I moved in together we had a joint account for mortgage, bills, childcare etc. Initially she earned more than me and then gradually I started earning a little bit more than her. We split the contribution based on the ratio of our net incomes. It suits us as what ever we decide to spend on ourselves, i.e clothes, gadgets, diesel and even our own cars are bought by ourselves, we can do so without question or a disapproving comment.

This is where the trust and respect comes in which sadly for the OP is clearly lacking. I know exactly what my wife earns and has in savings and vice versa. We might have control over our own accounts but there is full transparency. We budget our monthly outgoings and try to pay for absolutely everything out of it which is family orientated. If we need to top it up for irregular items such as Santa presents, we do so. My wife would have had a lot more debt than me arising from college so her saving power would have been a lot less than mine. Therefore, I would have paid for the family holidays, the fill of oil if the joint account didnt have enough funds, when we were doing up on house, I would have contributed a lot more. If we are going on a family trip we take my car and I pay for the fuel. To be fair it is easily balanced by all the extra work she does around the house which I definitely acknowledge and appreciate. If she reduced her working hours or lost her job, then of course I would contribute more as the family and house are the most important thing but I also think independence is a good thing. I know it is easy for me to say as my wife has a very good job and I am very lucky that she is able to contribute as much as she does.

Going back to the OP, I am sorry that I dont have any practical advice that can help your situation but I can say that is absolutely not fair what your husband is doing to you. You are not bleeding him dry and are being very fair to him in financial terms. He is denying you independence and self worth. You are clearly a very intelligent and hard working woman and you are just as entitles to enjoy the fruits of your labour every bit as much as him. He should be contributing to all family expenses such as summer camps etc. He is clearly extremely mean and obviously just likes looking at his bank balance rising but that is not fair to you when you have to pick up so much slack.

JimboJones99

Also I should mention the issue here isnt the amount they are spending. Again every couple is different and has different expenses. Yes, they are earning a massive amount of money but that is not the point. Her husband is paying the bare minimum whilst she has to cough up for furniture all by herself!! Thats not fair so I dont see the relevance of what they are earning has anything to do with it

ELM327

Not married but 10 year relationship with 2 older stepkids.

I earn more by some margin compared to herself who also has a "good" salary, not too dissimilar to OP situation.

We do a budget for expenses each month. We have our own accounts and a joint current and joint saving account too. With the budget figures we make sure we each have a similar amount of disposable income for the month. Generally this would result in me paying 60-70% of the expenses. Can't imagine a situation where herself was on the breadline and I'm out living it up.

However we didnt arrive at this situation organically. We went to relationship counselling (for other issues) and money came up as a problem. I was completely unaware that a 50:50 split was unfair as I was earning more. And she was struggling but hadnt communicated it well. Counselluing really helped this.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633347#Comment_119633347

100%.

Whats even stranger is that they see joint accounts as a form of trust.

Completely missing the irony that joint accounts couldn't be further from a symbol of trust. Its the equivalent of trawling through your partners phone daily to see who they speak to.

A partner justifying buying a nice new pair of wellingtons or perhaps a nice outfit just seems utterly absurd.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633701#Comment_119633701

"Pocket money" for working your ass off for 35 odd years and then you die.

I'm thinking none of those people have hobbies, having to ask permission for buying a new rifle would be enough for me to quit work

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119636857#Comment_119636857

Why would you ask your wife if you want to buy a new rifle if you had a joint account? I think you might be over complicating things. All you would need to do is to consider if it's affordable, and if it is go buy the best .22 rifle you can (unless approved to shoot deer).

Former Former Former

I make a lot more money than my spouse. We have a joint account into which salary is paid and from which bills and household purchases are paid, then we each take an equal amount every month for our individual Revolut and credit cards for own socialising and discretionary spending.

The mechanics of how you arrange the accounts isn't that important, but a marriage in which one partner has a much more lavish lifestyle, regardless of who earns the money, isn't going to last.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119636891#Comment_119636891

Or you buy hobby things from the personal money which is what we do. With that money there doesn't need to be any justification for what you buy. I might buy a bottle of wine for €200 but I wouldn't buy that from the joint account as obviously it is a ridiculous expense.

Girl Geraldine

So what is he doing with all this money that he is not giving to the family?

I would bet it is either an expensive drug habit, or gambline.

Cocaine is an expensive habit, and it also is known to turn normal pleasant people into inconsiderate arseholes. So those two things line up here.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119636857#Comment_119636857

I think you are missing the point - there is trust in having a joint account. My husband doesnt ask me for permission to spend or I dont ask my husband for permission - we buy what we want and need. Obviously large expenditure amounts would be discussed. I would think that even couples with separate accounts should discuss large expenditure - I would find it very odd if a partner just went off and bought themselves say a new car without telling the other person. Having a joint account causes no arguments whatsoever and never has for us. We have separate savings accounts though but no expenditure goes out of these accounts. To me having a joint account is equality and openess in a marriage.

I would find it very odd going out for a meal for instance and having to discuss in the car who is paying - that to me is ridiculous. It would seem though that some couples are like this.

JimboJones99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119636933#Comment_119636933

I dont think a normal couple would have that discussion about paying for a meal. It would normally go something like, "I'll get this one, you got the last one" Doesnt need to be complicated. Again everyone is different, no right or wrong way