If you're not sure read the reports. My understanding is that the Ukraine had a large force built on the other side too. I can't find a source to back that up now but if I do, I'll post.
I found this interesting: https://mate.substack.com/p/urging-regime-change-in-russia-biden/comments
A 2019 study by the same think tank offers strong evidence that turning Russia into "invaders" -- rather than just expending a "tiny fraction" of its military power to support the rebels -- has been the US goal.
The RAND study, "Overextending and Unbalancing Russia," found that arming Ukraine stands the highest chance of success of "exploit[ing] Russia’s greatest point of external vulnerability."
Mate documents significant Us involvement in the build up.
Foreign force builds large bunch of military on yer border, yet Ukraine are in the wrong to put their guys on the border too in order to try stop the other lads and lassies crossing to cause carnage? Is that the logic we're working on now?
But Russia Invaded by Russia's own choice,
There was no massive built of Ukraine Forces or weapons till putin invaded.
There was no US or Nato plan to get putin to invade..
How delusional is that
But I said Starship, which has a 100+t payload, not 64t.
These weasels and the Germans are who call the shots in the EU:
"Emmanuel Macron was very clear — Ukraine will and must win, but Russia must not be humiliated,” the adviser said. “Our line is to show our solidarity with Ukraine to help her towards victory — but if not, to be able to play a role when the conflict stops.”
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-and-france-at-odds-over-military-training-for-ukrainians/
When push comes to shove, the whole lot are rotten to the core
Ukraine got a great victory at Kharkiv Kyiv, I think people have extrapolated a Russian collapse from that. Unfortunately, I see no evidence of this. Just look at the Kherson Kharkiv frontline which has barely moved in weeks of sustained Ukraine attacks. I see two sides pouring forces into the meat grinder with little evidence either is ready to give up.
The above was the sentiment earlier in the war!
Attack on Kherson admin.
Special Kherson Cat 🐈🇺🇦 on Twitter: "According to Ru media, at the time of the strike there was a meeting of "heads" of administrations and districts of Kherson region. Also building housed offices of heads of Kherson and Kherson region appointed by Russians - Yeliseev and Stremnousov." / Twitter
These pro-Russian posters having me wondering.
Past couple of days we had one pro-Russian poster spouting dubious talking-points ad-nausium, and now we have another one. No doubt there will be a new one in a couple days.
For the sake of argument, let's say none of these are actually Putin-bots or connected officially with the Russian state in any way. In that senario, I am wondering: why support the Russians? Why come onto Boards and furiously post about how Ukraine will lose, or that the invasion was just, or telegraph some Kremin warning designed to seed fear or uncertainty.
If you are not part of their organisation, why take up such a position? Why defend a government responsible for crimes against humanity in the 21st Century? Is it that you have family in Russia? Is it that you just hate the Western world so very much that any opponent is good? Or do you simply want to troll?
I know this is just the reality of the Internet, but at times like these it does make me wonder why you still have people who will back the clearly wrong side of a conflict.
By the time Starship is carrying stuff to space, Russia will be gone from Ukraine and Putin will no longer be in power.
Very good point, there's been about 4 of them recently, all with a very similar approach and all so, so willing to patiently correct our "erroneous viewpoints".
How very understanding of them.
Yes...but you do realise that Ukraine are very good at manipulating the news agenda. That's been one of their strengths and needs even, in order to keep the 'west' engaged.
The atrocities at Bucha were largely committed as far as I know after the Russians took control.
What was being mooted is that at Izyum, the dead here were the result of the conflict to capture it. Unless proven otherwise.
Any municipal authority in that position, whether pro Ukrainian or pro Russian would simply have to collect bodies and bury them somewhere away from water sources and so on. People have been doing this for centuries after battles.
So we shouldn't jump to conclusions here as to how & when these 400+ people died.
Also the effect of the 24 news cycle. Every significant short term shift is seen as a decisive trend by people impatient for change.
We just don't know what'll happen. Ukraine made great progress recently but I also don't think Russia is about to collapse and withdraw fully and Crimea be safely back in Ukrainian hands before the clocks change, as some here are predicting. If it happens - great.
@Furze99 What was being mooted is that at Izyum, the dead here were the result of the conflict to capture it. Unless proven otherwise..
So far the only place I've seen this is your post..
We've seen plenty of these Ukrainians are doing great ,but did you see this..
People are strange. Look at the Sweden thread and all the blokes celebrating that Europe is becoming more right wing and Hungary, Italy and Sweden point the way to a brighter future
Almost 200 words there, which can be summed up as 'why everyone doesn't have the same opinion as me?'.
As always, it's not about opinions. It's about facts. You can have whatever opinions you want, but not your own facts. Pesky things, facts.
Okay - but if you are suggesting they were killed by Ukrainian artillery/air strikes, that would only have happened just before the liberation, and then they wouldn't have had time to dig mass graves. So it seems logical they were murdered by the Russians during their occupation of Izyum.
In confused. How could an invading army be anything other than “invaders”? Unless they are rapists, murdered, thieves, child rapists, etc.
Aaron Mate is just a proxy for Russian propaganda. His output on Syria and Ukraine is identical to what you get from RT. If he is someone that you consider to be a useful source, then it goes a long way in explaining how your views came to be. It's literal disinformation. Heck, you probably have strong views on White Helmets by now and believe that they faked the chemical weapons attacks from Assad. That's what the disinfo is supposed to do to you.
I honestly find some of the tactics employed to be baffling also. Like they will come in to try to convince people that Russia is very powerful, that they will definitely win, there may be minor setbacks but the industrial and military might of Russia will eventually overcome etc.
Like why is that relevant? Do you think we would support the righteous less because they are the underdog? They don't seem to grasp our psychology at all. If anything we root for the underdog even more. However it's more pertinent to say that it is irrelevant, the strength of Russia or lack thereof. All that matters is the ethical and moral questions of invading a sovereign territory and killing civilians and the total disrespect of the Ukrainian identity. Noone likes a bully and wasting their time convincing us that the bully is very strong is insane, we will still be against the bully whether he is powerful or weak. I'm not going to change my moral judgement out of fear.
You'd want to be a bit dim to think Russia is more powerful than the EU. It's a mafia state with nukes. They are like the lad turning up to a fist fight with a gun and acting like the hard man talking utter tripe.
Its not so much that the "pro-Russian" posters are really pro Russia, but that they are anti-NATO and anti-American. This is evidenced by the nature of their wataboutery.
Yeah sure but also who cares, if they were gods we would fight them and die because their ideology threatens all people, we could never be free if that was the dominant ideology, so there is no choice but to fight them, their strength is irrelevant.
Lots of strange pathologies going on taking past and current "pro Russia" posts & posters at face value (if that is possible)...
Far left "tankies" who don't mind seeing Ukraine wiped from the map + its population enslaved so long as the main supporters the Evil US/NATO/EU get humiliated and humbled by Russia (that is the more important thing!)
Yank right wing nuts with a grá for Putin who see that kind of corrupt system with a fascist strongman heading it up as America made great again
People from that part of the world (Russia or thereabouts) with nationalist feelings about "home" (enough to cheer on "their" army from the sidelines, but not enough perhaps to flee from this now hostile state to the cozy embrace of the motherland!)...
That's a big part of it. I'd say that's Chomski's angle. He'll rail against US and British imperialism, correctly I might add, but is utterly blinkered by Russian imperialism. He just doesn't see it as such and that it must be NATO's fault that Russia would invade a smaller neighbour.
If Robert Fisk was still alive he'd be another one. In his last years a professional apologist for Assad, any enemy of the West was a friend of his, yet the IT after his death were gushing about his fearless commitment to truth etc
Sadly I imagine there will be even bigger horrors the further east the Ukrainian army retake as the Russians probably thought they’d never lose it, so less likely to try to cover it up.
A lot of the far left and far right are anti-Western, anti-NATO, anti-American, anti-'globalism', anti-'imperial' etc.
Therefore if some other country goes to war with the entire West, they can only be the good guys in the conflict.
Bucha 2?
Explosion reported near air base in Melitopol
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