Dummy opening post
L plate.
Give them space and time.
Not a huge surprise that Gardai won’t act on a punishment pass
Wtf there are multiple offences in that one clip..
This morning coming back from dropping the kids to school I am sitting at the lights in front of an Audi Q7. It is a cross roads and I am turning right. In fairness I was listening to two pedestrians having an interesting conversation and wasn't paying particular attention to the lights. The car opposite me was turning left so I would have had to wait for them anyway. Next thing I know the Audi blares the horn as the lights have turned green. The car opposite has yet to move. I turn around to look at the driver as I can't really go anyway and she pulls around me and almost crashes into the car opposite, who has to slam the breaks to let her squeeze past. She then speeds up the road, pulling around a delivery van blocking her side of the road almost crashing head on into the oncoming car. About 500mtrs after this she does a u-turn and heads back to the scene of the crime! I don't have a camera and if I did I'm not sure I even have it on escorting the kids to school, but maybe I should.
It was absolutely necessary to alert the driver to a situation they were oblivious to, and also in the hope that they would be more aware in the future.
So what you're effectively saying is that cyclists should cede their right of way when travelling straight on to every car turning left? What if they eased off and the following car was also turning left? Should they let that one turn too?
As someone said above turning left is no different to turning right, you check that your way is clear. That driver would have failed their driving test for that, it's a basic part of the rules of the road.
What makes that incident worse for me is the fact there is a segregated cycle lane, which should make the driver even more conscious of checking for a cyclist. It's just completely blinkered driving, not a clue of what's happening around them, that's the issue here, nothing to do with the cyclist.
Regardless of who's right or wrong it's it's a good example of why it's important for motorists to be especially vigilant when making a left turn across a bike lane.
And why cyclists that are behind a car that is turning left should slow and not overtake on the left in case car hasn't seen them!
Of course. Not blaming anyone here, personally if I see an indicator I hang back. Just an example of why motorists should pay attention, if the motorist has right of way and even indicates well in advance sooner or later you'll come across cyclists who just carry on, like all those Deliveroo lads.
From the bike point of view cars have to cross the bike lane to make a left turn so you have a known risk there and since everyone's back on the roads after Covid now I notice indicators are a distant memory so you never know who's doing what anymore. If I was approaching a junction like that I'd ease off.
You still seem intent on sharing the blame here
Taking care with cyclists If you are at a junction where there is an advanced stop line for cyclists, you should allow cyclists to move off ahead of you. When turning left, all drivers, especially drivers of heavy goods vehicles, must watch out for cyclists and motorcyclists going ahead or turning. 53 Údarás Um Shábháilteacht Ar Bhóithre Road Safety Authority 54 Údarás Um Shábháilteacht Ar Bhóithre Road Safety Authority On left turns, watch out for cyclists and mopeds close to the kerb in front of you or coming up on your left. Do not overtake a cyclist as you approach a junction if you are turning left, as the cyclist might be continuing straight ahead.
Note the use of the word 'must', not 'reasonable expectation' nonsense.
All well and good from a self preservation point of view, but if we all did that as cyclists that driver and others like them would carry on doing the same thing until they kill someone some day. We have a right to be where we are on the road, and should collectively assert that right.
...
you don't collectively assert your right by going up the inside of a car you know is turning left.
your first duty as a road user is to avoid colliding with other road users; it doesn't matter if they're initially in the wrong. for example, if in a car on the motorway, you see someone swinging into your lane without giving way, you brake. you don't get to drive into them and claim it was their fault if it was easy for you to avoid the collision.
I’m all for making sure we have the right protections on the road and that drivers are made aware of the rules of the road, but eh, I’ll pass on being run over or colliding into the side of a car because I wanted to assert my right.
The cyclist didn't ride into the car. The cyclist stopped to avoid a collision.
You know, that was the exact analogy I was thinking of. It would be silly to drive into them just to prove your point, but at the same time you wouldn't be long letting them know that they're being an idiot.
But honestly this should be a complete non incident. With the nature of the ebb and flow of traffic it just seems so much simpler to ease back a touch if someone signals (in this case) or in other cases just speed up slightly (if the car was at 4 o'clock for example). People just love adding stress to their journey's.
I find this example particularly troublesome as it really does look like you spend a bit of time at least hanging in the blind spot. Something that makes me really nervous.
There is a shared blame / responsibility here though - see below for the relevant SI (whether you consider "reasonable expectation" to be nonsense or not, it remains the law)
S.I. No. 332/2012 - Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2012.
(b) A pedal cyclist may overtake on the left where vehicles to the pedal cyclist’s right are stationary or are moving more slowly than the overtaking pedal cycle, except where the vehicle to be overtaken—
(i) has signalled an intention to turn to the left and there is a reasonable expectation that the vehicle in which the driver has signalled an intention to turn to the left will execute a movement to the left before the cycle overtakes the vehicle,
There's an onus on the driver to check before turning and an equal onus on the cyclist to not overtake on the left in the situation outlined above. Both were at fault here and both should have been more aware of their surroundings
Absolutely correct. The blind spot exists only to those blind to the danger of manoeuvring their vehicle blindly.
The movement to the left is not the turn, it is moving closer to the kerb in advance of it. Therefore it is completely irrelevant in this case, as there was a cycle lane.
The 'reasonable expectation' was changed from 'will' at some stage, but it doesn't specify who is actually supposed to have it? At the end of the day the only person who can have a reasonable expectation of what a car is going to do is the person driving it.
No, what's crap is the fact that most of us cyclists have developed the rational expectation that we're probably going to be left-hooked so we hang back, and identify someone who instead chooses to assert their right of way on a cycle lane as being a crap cyclist.
Pretty sad imo
The movement to the left is not the turn, it is moving closer to the kerb in advance of it
Oh right. Any sort of link to where this approach to turning is detailed?
No probs.
Check for following traffic well in advance. Give a left turn signal and slow down. Watch particularly for cyclists or motorcyclists coming up on your left. Keep as close as possible to the left edge of the roadway. Make the turn, again keeping close to the left hand edge. If at a T-Junction, it is important to give way to both sides of traffic.
DO NOT SWING WIDE WHEN MAKING THE TURN AND ALWAYS GIVE WAY TO PEDESTRIANS CROSSING.
http://cavanschoolofmotoring.ie/rulesoftheroad.php#:~:text=Turning%20Left&text=Give%20a%20left%20turn%20signal,to%20the%20left%20hand%20edge.
Correct on the signal... But it is mirror, signal. Mirror for a reason..
It is as you say crap x 2, but crap cycling is unlikely to kill or seriously injure other people wheras a motorist can.
The UK have it right by establishing a hierarchy of road user and responsibility. I am quite tired of no indication before left or right turn, and increasing prevalence of left hook or attempted left hooks.
It's an indication to other road users as to what your intention is.
What it isn't is an abdication of having to know where said road users are.
Fair enough although I'd say you'd want something more official if you were attempting to argue that the SI doesn't apply to the situation in the OP because there was no "movement to the left" before the turn. Good luck with it
Agreed. For some, the practice seems to be a signal gives right to change direction with responsibility.
The SI is impossible to prove in any case, which is why i think it's nonsense.
Stop telling me what to do, they are rules, not guidelines open to interpretation.
Really? Do you think that argument would work in the event of a failed driving test?
No they wouldn't, if they were applying the law correctly (which in fairness is a law unto itself here), they would prosecute the driver for not driving with due care and attention
Rules of the Road are regularly referred to in civil cases arising from road collisions.
This thread is not a criminal case so no idea why you are waffling on about statutes
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