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Westmeath school gets temporary injunction banning a suspended teacher from it's premises

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  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Personally I don't think it serves students well to see a teacher going to Mountjoy, and I don't think it serves the specific student well to have this thrashed out in public.

    All of which is because of Enoch and his actions and choices



  • Posts: 6,583 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You have used all of the above already during the thread, well actually ascendency might be new. Again just saying how things read

    Personally I don't think that they are any way better than anyone else, but then I don't fret about what people have or don't have, or spend their money.

    However regardless of how and where someone was educated, some people still seem to think that this tool ended up in prison because of anything other than his behaviour and breaking the injunction, which is either wilful ignorance or comprehension issues on their part.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,259 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Only one more step now where they stop teaching any of that nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    I really must emphasise that Mr Burke wanted all this to happen. It doesn't matter what the school did or didn't do. As soon as someone mentioned a trans student, his goal would have always been to make as big of a show as possible.

    He purposely chose not to follow correct procedures in the first place by grabbing that mic, he continued to choose not to follow correct procedure when his boss requested him to by harassing her until he had to be physically stopped, he chose to turn up at that school knowing he wasn't supposed to be there, he chose to continue turning up at that school knowing he legally wasn't supposed to be there, he chose to go back to jail when he had to option to leave, and he chooses to continue to reside in prison.


    Let me repeat that last bit again; he chooses to continue to reside in prison.

    Burke is exactly where he wants to be. He orchestrated this. Whether he was motivated by his bonkers religious views, or by wanting more than his 15 minutes of fame, or both... it is beyond any reasonable doubt that the outcome would have been similar, regardless.

    The only way Burke would have avoided jail time is if the school made that student's life hell. Even then, I'm under no illusions that he wouldn't have continued to bully the child or go off on an anti-trans campaign disgusting enough to reach the news anyway, for which he has a track record.


    You seem to be trying to absolve Burke of any blame for his predicament, but ignore that that family are like the Kardashians of the EC world: addicted to fame and scandal and will do anything within the confines (and under the guise) of their religion in order to achieve it.



  • Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Firstly, how would it be remotely fair on the student? Having security at the gates because of a weird teacher that's obsessed with their gender. Secondly, there is no way such an unusual event doesn't make the press.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Really though this is a ridiculous claim that putting security at a school gate wouldnt attract media attention.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Priority is still students. They didn't fail Burke - they gave him the chance to escalate the issue at an appropriate time. He declined.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Posts: 756 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I put a lengthy reply on this already that the poster you are replying to could read. He is referring to the NCCA Junior Cert RE course. The problem he now has is how can this course simultaneously not be religious instruction for the Department while the RC hierarchy regard it as such. Presposterous manipulation by both to maintain religious control.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    They handle it the same way. Ask the person to stay away from private premises, escalate to injuction via court order, let court deal with it.

    Also, FYI, the same way abusive partners and harassers are treated: request --> injuction/barring order --> detention.

    Nothing new.

    Would you expect a private citizen to hire a bodyguard if someone harassing them refused to stop?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,513 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    No offence intended, but, if you're going to join in a current affairs thread, it might be an idea to familiarise yourself with the subject. There are plenty of news reports, many of them linked earlier in the thread.

    Yes, he repeatedly arrived into the school and sat in an empty classroom, in breach of his suspension!

    In pretty much any workplace, disrupting not one, but two, functions, and shouting at your boss would result in at least suspension. The way these things happen is almost always there'd be a delay of at least a few weeks between the suspension and any disciplinary hearing. To allow both sides to prepare. You know - get in touch with the union, talk to your solicitor, etc. That Burke appears to have completely failed to actually engage with the process at all is entirely on him. But then, he knew the consequences when he started the whole thing off.

    (Edit to add: Ah, I see further on you're saying you have read the media reports, so it's very unclear how you were unaware he had repeatedly turned up at the school. I'd have to question that you're posting in good faith if you were aware of what happened!)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,513 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Why would the Gardaí get involved in a purely civil matter? Why would an employer like a school be expected to hire security guards?!

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    At what stage is their disciplinary action against him? It is surely incumbent on them to move that along as this impasse is likely to be unchanged the other side of Christmas and they are the only ones with the power to free him by dropping the request for a court order.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Which he won't because of what he believes and he's still their employee, something they need to address.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    So, if he says to the jufge, "I purge my contempt of court and accept a tribunal with the school at a later date, until which I agree to stay away from the school but ultimately refuse to use requested pronouns" what happens?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    The school can ask the judge to drop the order and will probably end up having to do so. They are the ones who need to resolve this because he is resolved to listen to his faith, to the point of martyrdom. I don't condone his behaviour in any way but there are two parties to this and they may have to look at how they dealt with it, when it's all over.



  • Posts: 4,575 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The disciplinary hearing was set for September 14th.

    He could walk out of prison today if he agreed not to attend the school until the disciplinary process was completed.

    But reportedly the disciplinary proceedings are unlikely to go ahead now because Burke's in prison.

    So he'll sit in his cosy prison cell (on full pay) while making a martyr of himself.



  • Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Thing is, the school are following the correct steps in terms of disciplinary proceedings. But whatever the result this week, he can still appeal that. So he will likely still intend on violating the injunction. So this is gonna drag out cause of existing processes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,513 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Somebody disrupts events at the school, is suspended... [we all know the sequence of events by now]... jailed for contempt.

    The school behaved entirely appropriately at all stages and have been following established employment law the whole time. They handled everything entirely appropriately. The only thing they've done wrong, I imagine, is being too law-abiding, in hiring Burke in the first place and not going "No, we're just inviting trouble on ourselves, let's just not" - I know if I'm ever in the position of potentially hiring one of them, I just wouldn't.

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  • Posts: 9,954 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Many people have no problem spending 10K+ per year on their children's education. It is money better spent than driving 100K car, which depreciates down to next to nothing after 10 years.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Can you please answer the question I asked - what happens in the scenario I outlined in the post you replied to?

    Also - school doesn't have to do anything. Why would they?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    No, that jailing was for refusing to abide by an order not to go near the school. It's a SNAFU and they will still need to review how they did things. As for the man himself, his taught subjects would not raise any flags.



  • Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Less so a matter of taught subjects and more to do with how he deals with LGBT students. The injunction was because he is effectively ignoring the suspension. I've not seen any indication that they aren't handling this by the book.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    I gave you an answer, clearly not one to your liking by the looks of this. Posters are really not compelled to give any answers but I will humour you with an answer to this second one. It is always good practice to review the steps taken where disciplinary issues needed to be addressed to make sure it's all been above board and appropriate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    His subjects are not the issue, more so his and his family's previous public behaviour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,849 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    I would agree if his suspension getting the injunction and then been sent to jail was in relation to trans right and his beliefs. Also not a criminal matter (yet) its a civil case



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Answer 1 - "he walks free"

    Answer 2 - "because they have what they want."

    Your answer, while wise protocol, does not answer either question.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    I was talking about an interview for a teaching job. His family have nothing to do with that and there are no suggestions that he's been pulled up before by the school and he clearly impressed them enough to get the job.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Seems my post wasn't clear - I meant at interview and they are not exactly topics where conflict might arise between him and the school.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,849 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    So what in your expert opinion should they have done



This discussion has been closed.
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