We need Islamic gangs and EE gangsters in Ireland before we can say that mass immigration brings crime?
Ahh Tom, you're shifting the goalposts.. you need to consider the post/quote I responded to.
The attempt to link foreigners, as being foreigners, with murder/serious crime. It's those kind of arguments that tend to "kill" any reasonable discussion about the negatives of immigration or multiculturalism, because it links the protests with very obvious xenophobia.
How many beheadings have happened in Ireland from foreigners? And we don't have open-borders. We have badly regulated/controlled borders following a political virtue driven agenda.
Oh, and I have no problem blaming Islam for the beheadings of men... as apparently we can blame the RCC for paedophilia. Never really did like the way people encourage double standards to be applied in society. I'd be quite critical of Islam in Europe.
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Both posts are interesting to me. It feels like I'm no longer posting under my only account or my position on multiculturalism/Islam/etc has been erased. Perhaps, think about all the posts I've contributed to this thread, which make my position quite clear, and then.. think about my posts above. Just because I object to something like the above, doesn't mean that I've suddenly lost my previous position.
We need Islamic gangs and EE gangsters in Ireland before we can say that mass immigration brings crime? What nonsense. In Sweden, France, England and likely other nations, the "ghettos", which are full of immigrants, have some of the highest crime rates in those countries. It's not an opinion, it's reality. We don't need to wait for anything to point to the obvious.
Our very own clown in Sweden isn't very happy with the result😀 Philip will never discuss any problems with mass migration into Sweden and will block any one who tries to debate him.
How many beheadings of gay men had we pre-open borders??
Whilst I am not religious, it must be jarring for those who are to see the likes of Enoch Burke in prison and his religious beliefs ridiculed, while Islam cannot be blamed for the beheadings of 2 men, or the murder of the Japanese student in Dundalk under threat of a lefty mob pile on.
For me the main problem with this modern "multiculturalism" politic and near religious belief is that it thinks "integration" is an answer, that different people can happily co-exist if only we all integrated. I mean I can see why, it seems like an obvious answer and a hopeful one. And it is, if you completely ignore human nature and history.
Multiculturalism and "diversity is strength" and all that has been a reaction to existing multi-ethnic demographics in ex European New World colonies. A reaction to the clusterfcuk such nations found themselves in after centuries of exploitation of natives and settlers and of course slaves indentured and otherwise. So faced with that they had to try and come up with a sociopolitical sop to try and smooth over, or cover up the obvious shortcomings of history and realities.
The concept of modern multiculturalism barely existed before that. Yes there were multicultural societies, almost all of them built on empire and conquest where the rulling caste(and it matters not which "race" or "colour) imposed, often at the end of stabby things, the ruling caste's culture. Oh you could be a Roman from Spain, or France, or Britain, or Israel, but you better damned well act like one or else. Same for the Islamic empire. "Integration" was very much one way. The ruling caste were not those doing the integrating. Save for situations where said invaders and ruling caste were massively outnumbered and had to integrate to some degree. EG the Normans becoming "more Irish than the Irish themselves". The same Normans in England with far more clout took centuries to "integrate" and even then...
Those diasporas that chose to live apart, remained apart and conflict was and is sure to follow. It takes precious little difference too. I mean look at the current war going on. Can you tell a Ukrainian from a Russian? Even they have difficulty. Look at the conflict that blackened the North of this country. Can you tell the difference between them walking down the street? And we think demographics that look very different and have different background cultures and beliefs won't clash? It's a nonsense.
It's pretty logical... if you significantly increase our foreign population, then more foreigners are going to be represented in our crime statistics.
The question is whether the crimes happened because they were from foreign cultures, or whether they're simply humans, and just as likely/unlikely to commit crimes as anyone else.
I get the desire to **** on immigration and our massive demographic shifts, but.. this approach is silly. When we have Muslim gangs, or Eastern European mafia.. then... I might agree with you. However, crime in Ireland is still extremely low, including that of foreigners.
It's an non-issue in terms of immigration.
McEntee isn’t far off it at the moment.
Ahh... I kinda agree. Extremism as seen in Germany or Sweden is not the answer, but it's worth remembering that they have a history of associations with racial superiority. So, their extremes are far more extreme than what could happen in Ireland.
The thing is that Ireland has always been very very moderate. I think most people can agree that we're unlikely to swing heavily left/right, and mostly our political views are stuck in the middle, which means that extremism can be considered anything that deviates from the centre.
And honestly, I do think extremism is the answer for Ireland, because the centre will never be able to operate, and change the status quo, due to the system that past centralists have created. After all, if you are a moderate, you'll believe that you must work within the existing system to effect change, but that's not going to happen. Any party would need successive terms in office over the long period (one/two decades), to remove what's been done by the mainstream political groups.
Conservative extremism. 😂 is the answer here. A "reasonable" approach to the right, without the idiotic positions and attitudes often seen in right leaning groups.
A few weeks ago, I encountered two "far right" organisations promoting their views in Athlone and then later in Galway. Showy flags, bagpipes, calling all native Irishmen to defend the nation, yadda yadda yadda. Heavy, and very obvious links with Catholicism. Meh. Took two looks at their pamphlets and laughed myself silly. I suspect they saw themselves in the light of the United Irishmen, but against the social problems within Ireland. Hilarious. Their views were badly represented, and quite naïve I spoke to their reps about the main viewpoints, their proposed answers, and.. idiots. No dealing with the practicalities pf a modern society, and the legal system we live with. And yet, they drew a crowd, and there were plenty of people walking away with the literature, and not laughing at what they read.
However, these kind of groups are not the answer because they have no credibility, and frankly, are stupid. But that's not to say, that we won't find a more "moderate" far right group, that strikes the right cord, and is intelligent enough to know to pay attention to their audience. And they might do something of value for the nation. Might.
I don't believe in the mainstream political parties, and I have no confidence in the modern left. Which leaves the right.. the far right? nah. Inbred retards from what I've seen... but I've also seen more sophisticated/intelligent far right people in Germany/France, so it's possible we might see someone, or a group manifest here. I don't see any alternative that's likely to work.
Although, maybe is worth remembering, that I'd like to see the Irish people take to the streets, hang our politicians from the street lamps, and completely restart our system of democracy. 😋
Ireland will probably just make it hate speech to compline and analyse crime and economic data with any references to ethnic background…… I am joking but it does also seem plausible
One of the tweets has a Swedish politician putting the blame on the Swedes for the lack of integration causing these issues. Sweden is like other western countries in that third world migrants will end up in poorer areas rather than affluent areas so end up creating ghettos. Similar to Ireland in that you're not going to see large groups of immigrants in leafy Foxrock,Ballsbridge etc. compared to large parts of west Dublin or Balbriggan. You can imagine in 10 or 20 years time some Irish politician will say its our fault for not encouraging integration.
Wow that is a jarring thread
Some of the most high profile murders in Ireland in the last year or two were committed by foreign men. This is fact .
Have we began to go down the same path?
Chilling stuff
Thread on crime in Sweden. Has Ireland 2040 written all over it 😡
https://twitter.com/composite_guy2/status/1569252000730079236?s=46&t=yVPeF2n5v7ciBaiQqBx4rw
Glad to see Sweden has taken this route. You have to shout stop somewhere.
This is quite scary and sad at same time. It also should be not ignored
unfortunately when they get deported they will be on the lookout for another handy country to get into .
where better than good old ireland the land of a thousand welcomes no matter what ure criminal record is
I remember watching a video about the last general election in Sweden and was shocked at the fact that there isn't one ballot paper with all candidates listed as is the case throughout Europe. Instead candidates or parties printed their own ballot papers which were sent out to all the polling stations and were put out for voters to choose publicly, so goodbye secret ballot.
From Wiki:
"In 2014 a German citizen, Christian Dworeck, reported this lack of secrecy in Swedish voting to the European Commission[7] and from 2019 ballot papers are selected behind a screen.[8] It remains to be seen if this measure, quietly introduced to bring EU elections in Sweden into compliance with European human rights law, will be extended to Swedish parliamentary and local elections." I don't know if that was the case for these elections.
And what if the poll station workers "lose" particular candidates or parties ballot papers?
Edit: At least that's something we don't have here. As mentioned previously, no proponent of multiculturalism here mentions the Swedish Model with pride anymore. Remember how they all jumped down Trumps* throat when he mentioned Sweden had it's no go areas? Then before this election the Swedish Prime Minister said she would not like to see any "Somalitowns" in Sweden. Her words, not mine.
Enough commentators have pointed out how "parallel societies" can grow within a country, often to the detriment of the native society. Will Helen McEntee et al take responsibility for any parallel societies in Ireland?
*it feels strange pointing out a time he turned out to be right, but between that and him pointing out Germany's over reliance on Russian gas, that particular stopped clock was right twice.
I am not criticising the Swedish people for this result. The blame firmly lies with the politicians that were in government over last couple decades. I believe majority of people naturally stay well away from having extreme left or right views. Most ordinary people want secure housing, jobs, safe places to live and raise families, good education, access to quality healthcare once they have all that they don’t give a second thought to where there neighbours are from.
The political class ignored what was happening in peoples everyday lives and are therefore responsible for this increase in voting for the far-right. It’s been quite a few years now where we have heard stories of crime, violence in Sweden and in many cases those stories have been dismissed as conspiracy theories by those who believe in open borders. Add in that certain demographics have shown to be overly reliant on welfare making the Scandinavian welfare model unsustainable. The political class in Sweden and elsewhere around Europe ignored the warning signs and carried on regardless. Now their citizens have had a drop in the quality of life and feeling of safety in their cities and some are taking unprecedented action via their ballot paper.
Remember when Irish politicians used to wax lyrical about the wonderful left wing 'Swedish Model'. Doesn't look so wonderful now, does it. Look where it has led them.
No, extremism is not a solution, actually it's more problems on top of the existing ones.
However, admitting that Sweden has a problem with these violent gangs of African origin, and looking to reduce their numbers by any means including swift deportation is not extremism.
Indeed. But there will be a tipping point at some stage. It will just be further along in the process than other countries than have a right wing party which gradually gains support. Ours will be a much more disorganised transition whenever it occurs
There already is loads of anger and dissatisfaction here. It's just that most people are afraid to truly voice their opinions. Afraid of being labelled racist or some other ism. Irish people really need to grow a backbone and demand this asylum seeker insanity be stopped before it's too late.
I agree it’s very hard to see how any anger or dissatisfaction will manifest for Ireland.
they won’t because there is no party on the right, or a Farage like individual, to focus their minds. Nothing for the right to coalesce around. So it’s easy for them to wilfully ignore the problem. But doesn’t mean that the sentiment is not there….just not sure right now how it will ultimately manifest given that it has no rallying point
Just under 2 weeks to the Italian election
Both the far-right and far-left are extremist positions. It never goes well to go down the path of extremism. No one wants to see this happen in Ireland, but it’s happening all over Europe. Our political class are a disgrace that they won’t look to what is happening in Europe and learn from the mistakes of others.
and the shift is happening right across Europe. As usual Ireland will be the last to wake up! There is an effort on Boards to shut down conversation about what is happening in Ireland , about the right to have a discussion and debate on this. The anger people are feeling right now is not going to go away. It is being pushed underground but it will resurface.
Helen McEntee has an awful lot to answer for. I can't help wondering if she was older, more experienced, more worldly and more mature if she would feel the same about allowing hundreds of unvetted men from different cultures into Ireland. If she had 3 teenage daughters how would she feel? If she had got to the stage of them going out at night, coming home on buses how would she feel? If she had waved them goodbye to go travelling for a year? These experiences help our perspective, life experience should help politicians make good choices and decisions. She has none and is completely out of her depth.
Unfortunately the answer is pretty obvious - can't blame people there for voting against what has happened to the place recently.
unthinkable 15 years ago. Get no pleasure from seeing this. Its worrying. But question needs to be asked, how it came to this?
Hopefully Helen McEntee will lose her seat at the next election. She seems to be in thrall to the NGO's and determined to bring in as many non EU immigrants as possible despite the huge pressure on housing and other services.
We could do with a Minister for Justice like Michael McDowell who said years ago a lot of asylum seekers were telling cock and bull stories. Can you imagine a minister saying anything like that now?
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