Mod- Thread title updated to reflect what has actually happened, and the op's text link has been turned into a working link
Lazy effort op, don't do it again
Threadbanned
john123470
It may be irrelevant to you that all Irish schools have a religious ethos, but many of us think differently.
It certainly is irrelevant to Burke's problem with the law, but his protest is firmly rooted in his belief and his understanding of the religious ethos of the school he worked in. Without such a religious ethos, his protest would have been without fundament. Of course he could have protested, but he couldn't have relied on an interpretation of the school's ethos based on his reading of the bible rather than on the law of the land.
But this has been stated many times and in many ways on this thread, and some posters refuse to countenance any suggestion that the religious ethos has a part to play in all of this.
Cui bono?
It did, but what the people who blame the ethos won't answer is: why did Burke agree to take a job when he didn't agree to its ethos? THAT'S what invalidates his position. And if the excuse is he didn't know or didn't understand he should have sought the extra information.
You can blame the ethos, but he still signed up for it.
It may be irrelevant to you that all Irish schools have a religious ethos
You are arguing a strawman point
It certainly is irrelevant to Burke's problem with the law
Agreed
but his protest is firmly rooted in his belief and his understanding of the religious ethos of the school he worked in. Without such a religious ethos, his protest would have been without fundament. Of course he could have protested, but he couldn't have relied on an interpretation of the school's ethos based on his reading of the bible rather than on the law of the land.
All irrelevant to the issue at hand
The Presbyterians who are mostly up north, would typically have conservative views and would be anti abortion and so on. As regards that, they fit quite well with the conservatism of Roman Catholicism. Big difference is that they have a fairly austere religiosity compared to the frills of the other side.
For people who think Enoch Burke is a complete head the ball, think for a moment what would happen if the state instructed all national schools to cease preparing children for first communion & confirmation etc. All hell would break loose. In fact, there might be quite a few Catholic bishops down here, saying quietly - good on you Enoch!
think for a moment what would happen if the state instructed all national schools to cease preparing children for first communion & confirmation
That would be a great thing. Let the church do that stuff in its own time, not during the school day
there might be quite a few Catholic bishops down here, saying quietly - good on you Enoch!
I suspect that they are more likely to be terrified of the likes of Burke, as he is drawing people's attention in a negative way to the issue of "religion" in schools.
A lot of people are happy enough to go along with religious instruction without any great enthusiasm. In my kids' classes, nobody learned prayers at home, without religion in school the whole thing would have died out by now, except for the occasional enthusiast. People are fine with communion and confirmation as social occasions, but the religious aspect has been lost for most of us.
What the Burke/Wilson's Hospital School issue has done is highlight that there is no real religious basis for religiously-segregated schools any more.
Segregation, which was always carried out on the basis of wealth (for most of us, this is about who goes to the community school/comprehensive, who goes to the Brothers or the Convent, who goes to a fee-paying school and finally who goes to a boarding school; generally correlating to increasing levels of wealth) continues in our society.
The number of CNRs (to use a NI phrase) that attend fee-paying protestant schools has IMO two main aspects. a) It helps keep those schools afloat and b) it is a form of social segregation at the highest level. It's not about religion. To some extent it may be about the UK heritage involved in those schools, but it is undoubtedly about avoiding not just the working class but also about avoiding the catholic middle class.
“But it is best to be honest about the character of religious ethos rather than presenting it as a mishmash of well-meaning sentiments.”
From
Why is the country so invested in maintaining denominational education? Why indeed.
94 days for the Rossport 5. I don't think the court of public opinion changed much - their supporters remained loyal, their detractors didn't really seem to care?
"I suspect that they are more likely to be terrified of the likes of Burke, as he is drawing people's attention in a negative way to the issue of "religion" in schools."
I dunno - I very much doubt that religious instruction in primary schools down south is going away anytime soon. So no real threat there from the likes of Enoch. But you likely would agree that the Catholic church is conservative too on the whole. I'd reckon there's plenty who quietly admire him. And that's why this current issue is quite interesting. He's painted as a looper by many here on this site but leaving aside how he appears to have gone about it, he's not that far out of line.
Irrelevant to the issue at hand. You seem to be struggling with this as much as Enoch
You’re not reading posts. Dismissiveness is not thought.
Doesn't change the fact that none of the religious stuff is relevant to the issue at hand 🤷♂️
The family operate like a cult so looper or brainwashed since he was born is an accurate summation. In terms of those who are silently agreeing. It's not anything close to a silent majority so it's pretty irrelevant.
That's got to be one of the most hypocritical posts I've read on here for a while....
Pressure will come on school to lift injunction, he will walk free before midterm.
From who? Parents likely don't want him showing up..
From jail, maybe
They don't have to lift the injuction. Why would they?
I can't see how he can go back there (or why he'd want to) when he's lost the confidence of the faculty and probably the students.
He'll definitely have lost the confidence of the principal, possibly the faculty but beyond one student I don't know how you can say probably the student.
The students could just easily see him as a hero sticking it to the principal.
When I was in school if someone declared their intentions to transition and wanted to be known by a name of the opposite gender they'd probably have been ridiculed by the majority of other students. doubt they'd have lost confidence in a teacher supporting their view.
Maybe things have changed but students always picked on anyone who was different but maybe they're all supportive of differences now.
Students have changed a lot since when you were in school. Eg homophobia was pretty commonly on display when I was in school about fifteen years ago. It would have drastically dropped off since then thankfully.
Students apparently walked out when he took his "stand" against the principal.
The picking on different students does still happen but teens are far more progressive than they've ever been. So a religious fundamentalist is not gonna be viewed as a hero.
A large number of them apparently walked out of the service which he stood up and started ranting and raving.
And, interestingly, students tend to not take it kindly if they notice a teacher is picking on one particular student, which is exactly what is happening here.
ah hes fcuked folks, he ll never teach again in ireland, i suspect he may in fact now be unemployable, what employer would want to be dealing with that, shur best of luck to him in spreading his nonsense!
It’s very difficult to gauge how students actually feel on the issue because any who disagree with certain viewpoints need to keep quiet. I do think there is a wide variety of opinions and plenty in the middle who couldn’t care less
I know a couple girls going to a secondary school nearby with a transgirl in their year. The school uniform policy is quite strict and girls are not allowed to wear leggings to school, must be trousers. In PE they are not allowed wear crop tops. Some of girls are quite resentful that there is an exception to those rules for one student. Other girls have been sent home for wearing leggings as it’s against the uniform policy. They think they run the risk of getting in trouble for bullying or transphobia if they say anything about how there are different rules for some. The girls I know were saying they keep as far away from the other kid as possible so they don’t risk saying or doing the wrong thing. The kid does have their friend group so obviously there are plenty of others who feel differently.
One thing is for sure with teenagers is that fitting in is something very important to them so most will try to go with what is seen to be the majority viewpoint amongst the peer group.
Students tend to be more liberal and supportive of their peers these days and definitely less religious. They're unlikely to side with a conservative bigoted teacher.
You have had to be corrected several times already in this thread. It doesn’t seem to register with you that you just blunder in to a complex area with deep rooted and entirely misplaced confidence. It’s very obvious that you don’t understand the wider issue at all. That’s fine. But turn off the attempted abuse.
There is nothing complex about this case.
You’re making it about pronouns when the fact is he ignored a court order to stay away from school while a disciplinary process was ongoing, which was caused by him harassing the principal.
You obviously haven’t read my posts. Why am I not surprised.
You never corrected anything. You just said "reread the post" three times, giving me nothing to respond to. You did the same with DaCod and with Faugheen.
If people can respectfully counter the post, they respectfully counter the post. If they can't, they go with "reread the post" or "you're not reading the post" or "it's pretty obvious you don't understand" or some condescending bullshit.
Other hidden option 3 - they're not reading the posts they're replying to. This was my guess based on the information you gave, hence the accusation of a hypocritical post.
Case in point: this will be replied to with a veiled insult. And if I don't reposnd, this will be the reason.
You are obviously not on the same thread as I am.
Secretary of Stare for Education if Trump gets elected.
I'm out of school over a decade and if we had a teacher like Enoch lots of the lads would say they odd homopobic word however around Enoch we'd have being very touchy feely with one another to wind him up.
We did have a few gay guys one evening moved his boyfriend to the school and nobody really cared. We had a gay week and David Norris called. Now they might have being the odd word said here and there but if a teacher acted like Mr Burke he'd have being an outcast.
I don't think he'd go down well with the girls/women either given the family general views.
I could think of think of two guys who'd have supported him. A guy who was fine but he was from a religious family.
Another guy had a very homphobic dad and he was uncomfortable regarding LGBT subjects.
They are more over liberal young people but even those who'd say the odd slur word, they mightn't have the prode flag out but they'd fine with LGBT people.
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