Its first I heard she had a stall aswell. So she was in Cork all day and then out with her lover that night until the wee small hours. Talk about burning the candle at both ends!
It is well known that she operated a stall in Cork. That`s where she was going.
Tibruit another question for you on the Airhill Rd sighting which you seem to think is crucial evidence in this murder.
"Please provide the exact quotes...."
I did about a page back. He was clearly wearing his long black coat on the day in question.
"it reads like a piece of bad fiction."
The truth does most of the time.
"wailing her name?"
Do you think he is incapable of that? I don`t.
"All the more remarkable then Marie Farrell didn`t know who he was."
He told WCP that he didn`t know who she was either. So there you go.
I know all about Bruno and you haven`t answered my question.
Yah but you see, the gards dont get to make that decision, on who they think is guilty or not and then engage in corrupt practices because they dont have any hard evidence. Its for the DPP & the judicial system to come to that conclusion which the former did & heavily criticized the manner of the investigation. Thank god there was people like him around back then because our prisons would be full of people who're innocent but happened to get on the wrong side of the gards.
No, it doesnt make sense when you look at it objectively. She has since retracted it, doesnt fear Bailey one bit but fears the people who pressured her into making it understandably. All in all, its not worth the paper its written on.
Nah but you see, if she said that, she could end up hanging herself if someone else contradicted this sighting, a bit like why Alfie Lyons said he was only 90% sure he introduced he introduced Bailey to STDP. Strange no one seems to be sure if they ever actually saw Bailey in the company of STDP.
And yes, I do have an issue with corrupt gards setting potentially innocent people up for murder, doesnt make me a conspiracy theorist or have a blind hatred for the gards. Its an extremely serious matter which went unpunished & if you ever found yourself in a similar position, I hope you remember this thread. Im sure theres a few good ones out there but I dont think that you can ignore some of the toxic elements that make up that organisation.
You're sounding increasingly desperate Tibruit.
Its common knowledge that Sophie was unfaithful to Daniel. She even brought Bruno to Dreenane.
Please provide the exact quotes form Ceri Williams about him 'loitering' in dark clothing.
Loitering across the street in dark clothing? Remind us, what time of day was it? Daylight or not? So what relevance does 'dark clothing' have?
Because it reads like a piece of bad fiction.
Would that be the same Ceri Williams who claims that Bailey appeared outside her remote home one night after the murder, wailing her name?
It was the main street of the town. He'd been on it countless times.
He'd been into Marie Farrell's shop.
All the more remarkable then Marie Farrell didn't know who he was, and couldn't describe him accurately despite allegedly seeing him standing around in the afternoon, yet could recognise him before sunrise or in the dark from a moving car. Yeah it isn't rocket science. Its a pack of lies. If you believe this you'll believe anything.
"the Mirror can reveal today"
Is this today today or is it today 25 years ago. A lot of bullshit was published back then. Bailey was the source of much of the French stuff.
"This is well known but you choose to ignore it"
I don`t ignore it. I accept that the gardaí stepped over the line in this investigation. But as far as I am concerned they did it because they believed Bailey was the killer. It wasn`t a big conspiracy to hang an innocent man.
"Why on earth would we believe the original statement. Doesn`t add up."
It`s the only thing she said that does add up and is corroborated by other evidence.
"It is a bit convenient this sighting by Ceri Williams"
Saying that makes you the classic conspiracy theorist and goes hand in hand with something else you said several pages back...i.e..going for the obvious suspect leads to miscarriages of justice. If Williams was part of a big fit up she wouldn`t have said "they weren`t together". She would have put them together. Your logic is fundamentally skewed by your hatred of the gardaí.
The fact that Sophie was home alone at her cottage was always the reason, why I strongly believe that the killing was planned, not unplanned.
Yes,
Nothing that MF says can be relied upon. She probably is telling the truth about some things ....but which?
Certainly any assertion based on her statements - for or against the Baily theory - fall at the first hurdle.
Im not giving her any credibility at all. You're the one thats using her first statement which was then clearly retracted & then which she further claimed she was heavily induced to make by the gards pointing the finger at bailey. So if were going to believe anything MF says, why on earth would we believe the original statement. Doesnt add up.
Im not giving the local statements around that time much credibility either as they were being consistently told that Bailey was the murderer and they just needed a little help to get it over the line. Its a bit convenient this supposed sighting from Ceri Williams puts Bailey exactly where he would have supposedly saw STDP. Why on earth would he just loitering on the street like that? sizing up his potential victim is it😂 The gards fully believed if they just managed to get enough to charge Bailey, that'd have him then. They'd make sure of that with evidence tampering, corruption, bribing of potential witnesses. They thought the trial would take of it itself then.
How can you clearly not see the blatant corruption that went on in this investigation, the bandon statements, the numerous witness accounts, the tearing of pages from the evidence book, refusal of gards to cooperate with GSOC amongst many many other things. Even the DPP at the time commented on this & total bias the gards had shown in the investigation against Bailey. This is well known but you choose to ignore it.
Again, im not saying that Bailey is 100% innocent, I have some doubts myself but I try and keep an open mind about it. But when an investigation is as thoroughly flawed and as biased as this, its hard to believe anything out of the gards some of the locals. Im sure the fear in the local community must have been palpable at the time that a potential serial killer was on the loose & in cases like that, you'll always find a few people willing to come forward to put the 'bad guy' away.
Murdered French beauty Sophie Toscan du Plantier was caught up in an amazing love triangle, the Mirror can reveal today.
The petite TV scriptwriter had been sleeping with:
Her current husband, millionaire French film producer Daniel
Her first husband Pierre Baudey
And a secret French lover.
Last summer Sophie announced to her Irish housekeeper Josie Helen that she'd left 56-year- old Daniel and was back with Pierre, the father of her 15-year-old son. She moved house to be with Pierre in Paris.
But while she was making plans to divorce Daniel, she began seeing the third man.
And in another twist, the 38-year-old started seeing Daniel again in the weeks before she was brutally killed.
They had planned to take a holiday in Senegal on Christmas Eve to sort out their lives.
Close pal Josie revealed: "Sophie told me she'd left Daniel and wanted to remarry Pierre.
"She still loved her first husband very much and wanted to be back with him for the sake of her son.
"She was in the process of divorcing Daniel when she was killed."
But detectives yesterday confirmed Sophie had a third man in her life.
Gardai won't reveal his name but confirmed he is to be interviewed a second time by French police.
All three of Sophie's lovers have been asked to account for their movements around Monday, December 23 - the day she was found battered to death in remote West Cork.
Sure aren`t you picking and choosing? I`m just accepting her first statement. The evidence is there. Ceri Williams has Bailey loitering across the street in dark clothing when Sophie was in Spar. This would have been only minutes either before or after Sophie visited Marie`s shop. A number of witnesses say that Bailey left the Murphy house on the Airhill Road early the following morning and that`s where Marie saw the same man hitching. It isn`t rocket science. The man she saw was clearly Bailey and there are obvious reasons as to why she later withdrew this identification. A local that was interviewed in one of the documentaries said that a number of people moved out of the area because they were afraid of Bailey. Marie would have been afraid of him for sure and made allegations that he was threatening her.
Yes, I think this is a key part of the investigation. The perpetrator would've had to have good reason to believe she was home alone or most likely to be. She often brought family or friends with her. If it was Bailey, he would have had to have heard it from someone, but surely this person would have come forward by now as only really a select few people would have known & they've all been interviewed.
Its funny how nobody else in the community ever said Bailey rocked up to their doors in the early hours of the morning propositioning them & then getting violent if they rejected his advances. He certainly hasnt had form for it either before or after the murder.
So whos the list of people that knew she would definitely be home alone.
Not really a long list, maybe theres a few more. Hopefully one of the questions those people were asked was who did they mention it to, that she alone here.
So basically your point is, is that she was so afraid of Bailey, she thought lying for him in his trial was the correct way to deal with that rather than following through on her original statements which were inaccurate & the gards clearly induced her to make.
Aswell as this, she wanted to make a big of extra cash so she thought it be wise to lie for someone in his trial against the state, someone who according to you, she believed had murdered a woman.
The on top of this, instead of coming out years later & saying that Bailey was really the one she saw, that she is terrified of him because she would have good reason to be if he did commit the murder, she turns around and says she has no issue with Bailey(actually feels sorry for him) but that she's actually terrified of the gards because she believes they're capable of anything.
So all this picking and choosing of which Marie Farrells statements to use is nonsense. She has zero credibility about what she did or didnt see. But if someone was going to believe her, I'd be alot more inclined to agree with her most recent comments & interviews where she backs Bailey. Because, I dont know about you, but id prefer a washed up drunken poet as an enemy down in West Cork rather than a whole police force.
She had a tree planted outside his office as a Christmas present and they had planned a trip together to Africa in the new year.
Yet from some reports she sensed that she was under some threat. She didn't want to come there alone was speaking about death and that book! Perhaps the missing 'diaries' would have thrown some light on it?
Glad to see that the conversation finally goes towards motive.
Daniel had by far the biggest financial motive for the killing. Daniel also had financial problems and a costly and messy divorce will certainly not have pleased his new girl as well. How he had that killing done, how he'd gotten in touch with a contract killer is something else. I would guess, it wasn't directly, but through a friend he knew? Or a friend of a friend....
One other part is that the Toscan Du Plantier family apparently also had influence in France, perverting the course of justice and possibly the investigation in France resulting in sentencing Bailey without any connection of evidence to the crime.
Same here. Bailey had no motive, certainly not financial, and most likely not sexual. If Bailey wanted to cheat, why wait for 5 months or so for Sophie to come to her cottage? He probably had better and much quicker choices locally, also, he never made a pass ( as far as we know ) at one of Jules daughters. Bailey may have had his issues with alcohol and beating his partner Jules, but I don't think he ever cheated in that relationship? On the night of the murder he would have hiked for one hour, one way, kill Sophie leave no traces of anything at all, return, possibly to his studio, clean up, burn the clothes and act to Jules and her daughters as if nothing as happened. Probably all a difficult task after more than a couple of drinks in the pub at the same evening.
The drug theory is still a possibility, but I find it also a bit unlikely. Maybe Sophie knew something saw something, maybe Alfie and Leo were in on something, muscling in, together with some locally bent Guards. However I don't think any of them would have made a good amount of money with drugs as well, - their lifestyle wasn't out of the ordinary, no fast luxury cars, etc... Leo Bolger certainly didn't live in luxury, as far as I know. Only thing that stands out is that Alfie and Shirley stated not hearing anything at all.
I also see a property dispute as too trivial or on whether the gate was open or closed.
She may have been in touch with the Ungerers and certainly with Hellens, from France, and they may have known with certainty, when she would be at the cottage. I doubt she was much in contact with Alfie and Shirley and the Richardsons were probably as rarely at the cottage as Sophie was. If they ever met, it was seldom, I'd suggest.
I often suspected, she wanted to prepare the house to live in longer, for a possible legal separation from her husband? Thus she wanted the heating to get fixed soon? Any separation from her husband most likely would have meant leaving her job, so a move to Ireland may have been a possible plan / a way out?
On the other had, if she really sensed imminent danger she would have taken her son with her. He was still under age, and I am sure, Sophie would have wanted her son with her. Even though Daniel wasn't the father, I am sure, legally he would have had some say in the matter. Mothers can rarely live with the thought of her son being taken from her in case of separation or divorce.
Yes, good point.
There is also the question of why she actually made the visit. In the depths of Winter, alone, just before Christmas.
Maybe she sensed danger at home and needed to get away?
Also Daniel was one of the few people who knew Sophie was alone. It was the perfect opportunity if he was planning to have her murdered by a hitman.
Who in West Cork would have known she was alone - the Hellens and the Ungerers for sure, maybe Alfie/Shirley (although they may not have known). Nobody else including Bailey would have known she was alone in the house.
Yes, that's true.
But motive is key. That's one reason I can't accept the Baily theory.
She wasn't robbed, she wasn't raped, I don't buy the drugs link, the ongoing dispute with Alfie seems too trivial.
And there is always a motive.
Remember he was French and it is very common to have a mistress for a man in his position there so it might not have been an issue. The wine bottle is odd and I'd say related to her killing somehow but would a French man throw away an expensive, unopened bottle of wine?
Yes, statistically, the murder of women is most frequently perpetrated by an intimate partner, husband, lover, ex etc.
There are a number of interesting elements of this case which may indicate/suggest the involvement of DDP.
A divorce was in the offing and Daniel stood to benefit financially.
Daniel's refusal to come to Ireland.
The late phone call.
Daniel had a lover, who he married shortly after Sophie's demise.
Marie Farrell's ID of his associate in Schull at the time.
The discarded bottle of wine.
The absence of any other obvious motive.
Yes. However he wasn't even in the country at the time.
Husband is usually suspect number one, if wife is murdered.
If there was an expensive divorce on the horizon, then money could have been a motive.
I'd say:
1) drugs or drug related ( smuggling going on in the area, and whoever was involved )
2) financial and assets ( the husband wanting to avoid a costly divorce )
3) sexual ( any man, casual lover, avenging lover, even the wife of a cheating husband )
maybe 4) random act, madman
I doubt that robbery or a robbery gone wrong would have been the motive, - there is nothing much worth in the house robbing. And even if one wanted to rob something he would have waited until Sophie was gone, picked the lock and robbed whatever he wanted to rob....
No money taken? or anything of value, even the wine bottle was thrown away.
