it does a bit though, so its not BS. aki has improved alot in that sense recently though in fairness to him
could even argue its aki/ringrose too tbh since theyve started some of the most important wins of the last few years (england 2018, NZ 2018, NZ 2021, probably forgetting some others)
henshaw/ringrose seems to be the preferred pairing for farrell but its rare theyre all fit at the same time anyway tbh
Injuries will play a part (unfortunately).
Yeah, true. Seems bonkers to have so many great back row options. But we grow them in Ireland. Need to start breeding big more props and second rows.
I guess two points here.
Firstly, one poster ≠ "Irish fans"
Secondly, maybe he should be one of the first names on the team sheet but that's not the reality, the coaches clearly think Henshaw Ringrose is the best partnership.
Besides the fact that he's so far down the pecking order.......
It doesn’t lack creativity, but it is very samey. Ringrose brings a dynamism that neither of those two do. At this stage though I don’t care who starts because I’m more than happy with them all. We just need Hume to show he’s at that level too and we’re laughing.
Aki is so underrated by Irish fans it's insane
He should be one of the first names on the team sheet. Aki/Henshaw is by far Ireland's best centre pairing.
A don't give me the "it lacks creativity" nonsense, because it's BS.
While I'm not convinced Doak will go, he doesn't need to get ahead of Cooney. Farrell has proven that he doesn't care at all about provincial pecking order.
Harry Byrne hasn't had to get ahead of his brother, Treadwell hasn't had to get ahead of O'Connor, was Gibson-Park first choice at Leinster when he became first choice for Ireland?
I think I'd have Kendellen behind van der Flier, Timoney, Connors, O'Mahony and Penny at openside, and behind Doris, Conan, Coombes, Deegan, Timoney and maybe Boyle at no. 8.
Kendellen is a cert for the squad.
Oof, big call here. Kendellen looks like a great player but VDF is one of the best opensides in the world so he will be fighting for a squad place.
If we assume VDF, Doris and POM are nailed on, then it's probably Baird, Coombes, Conan, Timoney, Connors and Prendergast already fighting it out over two, maybe three spots? That's a lot of traffic to get through.
What's wrong with Jack Kelly? He struggled with the step up from underage rugby when he played with Leinster, but he's really found his feet with the 7s. He's physical, good at breaking the line, and he's got good pace. I'd be fascinated to see him back playing high-level 15s.
I think he possibly was hampered by doing things in the wrong order. He didn't really play 7s while he was in the academy, unlike Keenan, JOB, and currently Smith and Comerford. He focused on 15s, but there wasn't much gametime for him, and he wasn't honing his skills playing 7s, and then he got cut. I'd wager he's far more composed in 15s now.
Kendellen is a cert for the squad. He's class already and only getting better. Love his work rate.
Doak is a good shout. He's a leader on the pitch already. Thsts usually missing from young players but he had it from the start. Makes mistakes like a young player but leadership at 9 is a huge benefit in a sub scrum half closing out games.
I think Doak will be the man for the next World Cup cycle. He'll probably take Murray's place in the squad at that point.
I'd be shocked if Aki misses out.
As for a bolter who hasn't been involved previously, probably no one. We've used probably 50 players in the last 12 months. Unless one of these newly arrived IQ guys turns out to be hot sh1t like Hansen did, or a young prop can stake a claim, I'd say there is limited scope for brand new faces.
Doak needs to get ahead of Cooney first and he finished last season miles behind him.
Absolutely zero chance Aki misses out, for me. I could see Earls missing out tho, just given the depth we have on the wing and his age profile.
Doak's a good shout for a bolter tho. And, adding a regular to miss out, it could be at the expense of Murray.
With my Munster hat on, someone like Knox might be an outside shot for bolter, just by dint of the fact it's a problem position for us and he's likely to see a lot of gametime this season. He'd need a pretty breakout season tho.
Kendellen might be a possibility too, but out backrow depth is pretty good also.
Exactly 12 months out to the World cup now. Who's your Predicted bolter to make the squad, who hasn't been involved previously.? And tip for Regular to miss out?
Mine is Doak. 9 Is a wide open position with 3 players likely to be brought. At a push or at least in training he can also cover reps at 10. With the smaller world cup squads versatility is important.
Should get plenty of game time this year.
Regulars to miss out are Earls and Aki.
When will the squad be announced and when is the tour?
Niall Murray or Thornbury over treadwell who’s been in camp recently. Would 100% bring Crowley. Cathal Forde over Tom Daly. Would look at Shane Jennings too.
Jack Kelly! Lol
I think I would go with something like:
Loosehead: Jeremy Loughman, Michael Milne, Jack Boyle
Hooker: Diarmuid Barron, John McKee, Tom Stewart
Tighthead: Martin Moore, Thomas Clarkson, Dominic Robertson-McCoy, Keynan Knox
Lock: Joe McCarthy, Thomas Ahern, Cormac Izuchukwu, Brian Deeny
Blindside: Ryan Baird, David McCann
Openside: Will Connors, Scott Penny
No. 8: Max Deegan, James Culhane
Scrumhalf: Nathan Doak, Cormac Foley, Paddy Patterson
Outhalf: Ciarán Frawley, Harry Byrne, Ben Healy
Left Wing: Jordan Larmour, Aaron Sexton
Inside Centre: Chris Farrell, Ben Brownlee
Outside Centre: James Hume, Jamie Osborne
Right Wing: Robert Baloucoune
Fullback: Jimmy O'Brien, Jack Kelly
I think it's important to have a look at some tighthead options behind the main three, in case there's an injury come RWC time. Patterson's playing style reminds me of JGP, so I think he might suit Farrell's gameplan. I'd like to see them being open-minded about Jack Kelly having a future in 15s. It'd be very interesting to see what he could do, and the 7s World Series doesn't start till later in the year. Aaron Sexton has killer pace and a bit of a playmaking game. I'd like to see him involved.
Some Connacht players, like Dooley, Thornbury and Murphy, would be worth spots; Dooley's more likely to make RWC 2023 than Milne, I'd say. But these players are probable starters for Connacht, and they have a run of important games, so it might be better if they weren't selected.
I don't think playing in this would really change how well Edward Byrne, Scannell and McCloskey could perform for Ireland in future. Scannell showed in NZ he could slot in and play well. I don't think they need this involvement.
I'd guess the November squad will look broadly like the following:
Loosehead: Andrew Porter, Cian Healy, Jeremy Loughman
Hooker: Ronan Kelleher, Dan Sheehan, Rob Herring
Tighthead: Tadhg Furlong, Finlay Bealham, Tom O'Toole
Lock: James Ryan, Tadhg Beirne, Iain Henderson, Kieran Treadwell, Joe McCarthy
Blindside: Peter O'Mahony, Cian Prendergast, Ryan Baird
Openside: Josh van der Flier, Nick Timoney
No. 8: Caelan Doris, Jack Conan, Gavin Coombes
Scrumhalf: Jamison Gibson-Park, Conor Murray, Craig Casey
Outhalf: Jonathan Sexton, Joey Carbery, Ciarán Frawley, Harry Byrne
Left Wing: James Lowe, Jacob Stockdale
Inside Centre: Robbie Henshaw, Bundee Aki
Outside Centre: Garry Ringrose, James Hume
Right Wing: Mack Hansen, Robert Baloucoune, Andrew Conway
Fullback: Hugo Keenan, Jimmy O'Brien
Interesting read:
This paragraph in particular, with regards the SA tour:
The IRFU have said the 35-player squad will largely be populated by those who have stood out at U20 level in recent years, and the URC boss says their concerns have been allayed by Irish Rugby, with Ireland's frontline internationals set to be available during that period.
Considering the current state of Irish rugby and what the IRFU have managed to achieve with such a small pool of players, I'll trust that the people involved and paying for this tour see merit in it.
I'll go with that.
I see your point but I'd still say the two issues you refer to are unrelated. Irish provinces do take the URC seriously, I've not see criticism that they don't. The criticism wrt Irish teams is that Leinster have the resources to compete in the league without having to use their frontline players often, rather than they don't take the comp seriously, they've won 5 from the last 6 afterall.
Welsh and Scottish problems with players based in other leagues is a separate problem that no-one paying attention will confuse with any Irish issues and I can't see how this proposed tour is related to those problems in any way whatsoever. As for the net affects on the provinces of this tour and their URC performances we'll just have to see who tours and how they cope, I'm guessing it won't be significant but Ill be happy to eat my shoe if it does have a big impact on results.
Indeed I do.
i think you mean cork con
why would it be a wet dream...its an uncapped mickey mouse tour where the head coach will be absent. its unsurprising many on here can´t find fault with it.
I know what the point I quoted is. The provinces don't exist in a vacuum and the strength of the URC and how seriously it is taken is of vital importance to the long-term health of the provinces (particularly given the constant **** around with the European Cup) and the ability of young players to improve and grow. Efforts such as trying to get more Scottish and Welsh players back playing in-country benefits us in the long term and while the effect is minimal, things like this do not help that.
Leinster may well field a stronger team, but I doubt that will be true across the board. People can view the downsides of this to be worth it in the long term and its a pretty reasonable view, but I reject completely the idea that there are none.
That’s exactly the point tho; some fringe players for the Ireland squad are core players for the provinces.
We’ll wait and see what the squad is tho, but I take the point. Jack Crowley for example was released to play for Shannon last season. This tour could be great for someone like him.
But it’s also likely to take away a cohort of guys that are closer to Ireland inclusion and key to their province.
There are extra minutes but that's not necessarily a bad thing. If those minutes go to already stretched players, then it's probably not good. If those minutes go to fringe squad players and academy players, then it's not bad at all. Might weaken the team a bit but that's always the way when trying out young players.
The net effect for the players on tour is zero. But the net effect for the provincial squads isn’t.
It doesn’t line up exactly but by way of example, take the URC game following the tour; the remaining squad will have played the previous 3 URC games PLUS the re-joining tour members will have played their tour minutes they’ve played in parallel. That’ll have to be managed.
Unless I’m missing something?
