It's all falling apart alarmingly fast for Boris Johnson across the water. How long you reckon he has left as British Prime Minister? Hours surely?
How many parties are they talking about now? I've lost count.
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This has been discussed on "The Rest Is Politics" a few times. Traditionally both the Conservatives and Labour were broad churches with room from centrists to the harder left and right. Particularly the Conservatives, and Johnson's purge of remainers before the last election, has changed that dynamic and there's not much of the "left" of the Tory Party in Parliament. Stewart has put, iirc, as they were effectively coalitions in the past within the same party. He's now in favour of some form of PR.
Loyalties??? Honestly, this is nuts, just been accused of being far right by another poster...I have no skin in the game in the UK or US for that matter, it is an interesting topic especially in recent years but that's about it. Moving the goalposts? Honestly please read my posts, I've no idea what Truss represents.
You need to separate the politicians from the political system, we are all poorly served at the moment with our political leaders, something evident all over the world at the moment, the Brits and the US have a better system for getting rid of leaders they don't like than we do....that is essentially my point, and also, that we are headed for political turbulence in the very near future as well, we will not avoid it.
Who invaded China? Japan/Soviet Union
And, seriously? Canada is authoritarian? I'm guessing because they didn't put up with those fkwits in the trucks?
Love the moving of the goalposts, you claimed both countries had systems in place to protect the rights of citizens and then ignored the 2 examples I gave of how that's completely untrue due to right wing parties either directly like truss or indirectly via US supreme court appointments making moves to dismantle those rights.
I never said anything about you supporting anyone but if you want to go there then you can pretend all you want but everyone here can quite easily read between the lines of your posts to see where you loyalties lie.
Far right? What are you on about? Media is polarized, a blind man can spot that....just because you don't like a media source doesn't mean it's "far right"....a joke of an accusation!
I don't think you understand, I don't have a view on Truss, I don't follow it, if she is a disaster she will be given the boot shortly enough, if the Americans don't like their politicians they get to give them the boot too...just look at the leaders in our country, been around a long time now with no sign of any change coming, it doesn't matter who we elect we get the same Government.
I've heard this before. You don't trust any and then dump more far right American nonsense here. Spare me.
I've no idea what this has to do with Liz Truss anyway.
I dumped a link with an alternate view to the link that was dumped by the other poster to demonstrate a point. I don't trust any media outlet. Not one.
It's only this easy when you can't be bothered to read into it. The only easier thing is to dump a link from a source you prefer solely for that reason.
Who invaded China then?
Who invaded Russia?
Who invaded Germany?
Political systems succumb to authoritarianism, often using force but not always, the closest I've seen in recent years is Canada, Government Overreach is getting all too common these days.
Lol the US and UK protect citizens rights do they? And yet what is one of Liz Truss first expected actions? An absolute destruction of workers rights in the UK including holidays sick time and working hours to name but a few. I wont even get into how far the US has gone away from protecting citizens rights except to point out that according the the US supreme court the police no longer have a duty to protect the citizens they supposedly serve.
Succumbing to authoritarianism is usually done at the point of a gun. Neither the US nor Britain were invaded and their infrastructure destroyed. Britain came closer.
You mean the census that was wildly incorrect?
Data doesn't lie , it's got nothing to do with "the media" or otherwise.
There is no data to suggest that Californians are leaving the State in any greater numbers than people are leaving any other State in the US as a percentage of their population.
California is the most populous State in the US by some margin so it stands to reason that Californians would make up the largest percentage of "new arrivals" into other States.
There is evidence to suggest that post-covid people are moving from Urban to Rural which sometimes involves a change of State , but fundamentally the actual data does not support the idea of a "Blue exodus" or anything like it.
Anyway - US Demographics are not relevant to a conversation about the car crash that is the current UK Tory government.
Ehh so we should have emigrated to say France where we did not speak the language and there were probably less work.
You do know our history and the difference between us and lowly populated outpost that has only existed as an accessible country for less than 180 years and was only settled by actual people around than 700 years ago ?
And typically people who have no work and often no freedoms emigrate to places where they can satisfy those needs.
The EU is another layer of authority, which it is.
The Guardian isn't exactly known for it's balance to be fair, just look at what is happening in Florida over the last two years, where do you think those people moved from?
https://www.fox13news.com/news/florida-texas-see-largest-population-increases-as-us-has-slowest-growth-rate-in-history Fox's isn't known for its balance either as you know!
You see how easy it is to be misled by media, the best thing to do is wait until the next census. But what we will see very shortly what way Florida votes, a notorious swing state.
I think it is wrong that the thread was renamed.
Maybe our mods are trying to get into the swing of things by just having an old rename, but I think Boris deserved his own thread and by the looks of it there are good odds that old Liz deserves one of her own.
How many leaders that she will have to deal with has she insulted before she even got the gig?
Macron was one, Sturgeon is another.
Hell you even find tories saying they understand how Sergey Lavrov found her a tad condescending when they met in Moscow back in January.
She is pigheaded and I would say stands for nothing, bar maybe being an economic libertarian.
And who in their right fooking mind would have Rees Mogg as a minister. 😲
So the EU is "Authoritarian"..Right , I think that tells us what we need to know.
Also - The "people leaving blue states and moving to red states in Droves" thing is a fallacy.
I agree, but we flock to these places in much bigger numbers than New Zealanders for instance who live on an even more remote English speaking island country. Typically, people who live in dysfunctional countries emigrate to more functioning countries.
I think that has more to do with them being English-speaking countries than a reflection on their political stability. Irish people historically have mostly stuck to the Anglosphere.
And yet both countries have witnessed huge political earthquakes with people voting in massive numbers in recent years, so your experience isn't tallying with the tallies in the ballot box.
Actually both are moving away from it, I mean, the Brits left the EU. Again, these two countries have managed to avoid authoritarianism and will continue to do so! Their political systems, in particular the US are specifically designed to protect the rights of citizens, just look at what States people are leaving from and where they are going to in massive numbers, the free market is speaking!
Have you ever been to Britain or Amended?
Most people in England are apolitical outside of recongizing names due to social media now.
The American lack of interest in news, even their own. In politics, in history is one of the most bizarre things I have ever encountered.
Both are getting closer and closer to that though , the US in particular.
It isn't a co-incidence that countries with FPTP electoral systems (or worse like the Electoral college) have the most divisive politicians and distrust in the media - That's driven by the idealogues and proto-authoritarians that are the driving forces in those 2 party systems.
And yet the US and Britain have never succumbed to authoritarianism over the last century or so when so many have. The Brits were never going to last in the EU, they just weren't a good fit. It is to these countries that we have sent our youth so many times in that time too you should remember!
The two party system seems to lend itself to deep division and wealth inequality. One of the main reasons Europe doesn't appear to have down this route is because of multi party coalitions, which effectively prevents the system being hijacked by one party (the one exception is Italy, which has always been a political basket case and which has the same type of dodgy media billionaires the US and the UK has).
I would echo those sentiments, I will add though, it has been something to see how Irish people have convinced themselves that they know how and for whom the Brits (and Americans) should be voting for...it's been a sight to behold!! Despite the fact that the typical American and Brit are vastly more politically aware than the typical Irish person.
The main difference as I see it between the US and Britain is their two party system, where they will often face turbulence but can and always do veer away from government overreach. More importantly, these two countries in particular have witnessed massive decline in trust in their media over the last decade...so they are influenced the least by their media outlets, liberal/left/right/conservative it doesn't matter to them, they trust very little of it.
https://www.poynter.org/ethics-trust/2021/us-ranks-last-among-46-countries-in-trust-in-media-reuters-institute-report-finds/
We are some bit behind on that score, and we seem oblivious to the very real possibility that we will soon be seeing the political turmoil the Brits/Americans have been experiencing over the last 5/6 years...only our media and political establishment have only one gear, complete group/herd think and as usual it is our young that will suffer who will no doubt have to flock in number to Britain or the US for opportunity in the future, us Irish people, we like to think we are more progressive than both nations, but in actual fact, we are behind as always!
They don't have a written/codified constitution, but they do have one. Its just based on disparate elements of precedent and is fundamentally different from e.g. ours in that Parliament (but not the executive) is ultimately sovereign and cannot be constrained.
And no is the answer.
UK don't have a constitution. A position that is increasingly causing issues.
Is the role of the party ensconced in the UK Constitution? And, is the process to determine the PM mentioned in the Constitution beyond "MP's will choose the prime minister" or some such? Because I don't think anyone would start the day coming up with an idea for government that includes political parties, official voting party membership (independent of who votes in general elections) and so on. Seems like it's been ad-libbed as time has gone on.
The US Constitution, for all its numerous failings, doesn't mention political parties at all. Does the UK Constitution talk about them?
ah ok yes, fair. The intricacies of the systems do seem to favour the Tory one. They're both rubbish though.
