Mod- Thread title updated to reflect what has actually happened, and the op's text link has been turned into a working link
Lazy effort op, don't do it again
Threadbanned
john123470
Again. Termination services are part of the HSE contract, not a requirement by the Medical Council. The MC has a Board, on which the State is represented, but does NOT control it.
I'm sorry, as a doctor I'm going to tell you you're wrong here. GPs can be reported to the medical council (who can suspend them or terminate their registration thus stopping them from working) if they dont at least offer referral to someone else.
Hospital doctors can also concientiously object as long as they refer on to another doctor who can provide the service.
I cannot get onboard with his actions at all. He put his own feelings/agenda before his students. There is a pupil and family at the heart of all this.
He has done damage to the cause for any teachers trying to push back on gender ideology to protect their students. There are legitimate questions to be asked such as what is reason for such an increase in trans identities in teenagers, does social transition actually help long term? What time is social media playing in all this?
Its easy to get lost in the new name/pronoun aspect. It’s a distraction and it doesn’t matter because many will use the new pronouns because it’s the nice thing to do and not because they actually believe it. What matters is do we have unbiased, credible research into the long term effect of these changes for the teenager and does it help them.
Mr Burke seems to be on a crusade and hopefully is never inside a classroom again as a teacher.
The medical council was established under the Medical Practitioners Act 1978. Now who enacts, amends or cancels Acts??
Isn’t that the state?
The key point is Burkes refusal to engage in any kind of compromise or mediation approach.
Had he acted like an adult perhaps an accommodation could have been found - Like him not directly teaching the child in question for example so he could avoid being in a position of having to call the kid whatever it was they wanted.
Not sure about the staffing arrangements in the school so that may or may not have been possible but it never even got to that stage because that's not what Enoch Burke wanted.
He didn't just want to not have to do it himself , he wanted no one to do it and have the request completely removed for everyone. He wanted his beliefs to take absolute precedent over every other person.
In the scenarios you list above , the teachers engage in a process and the school make an accommodation for them. Do you think those Teachers would still have jobs if they demanded that there was no sex education at all in the school for example?
As has been pointed out as nauseam at this point , everything that has happened to Enoch Burke is because of how he has behaved , not because of his initial complaint.
sure.
GPs register with the Medical Council, but are not obligated to enter contracts with the HSE. Some GPs are fully private and do not see GMS patients. The HSE contract has an “opt in” clause for the provision of termination services, it is not an “opt out”, nor is there any obligation to opt in. So on this matter, the State CANNOT “control” a GP. Please don’t state otherwise again.
I
Mine was threatened with it because he spoke out about people being put into nursing homes without being tested.
you think GPs can be struck off the medical register for not performing certain procedures or offering certain services?
They register with the state, my own GP was threatened with being struck off because he was critical of the Covid response. Stop trying to pretend that doctors can’t be controlled.
OK then, if he doesn't wish to change career, how about he finds himself a school to teach in that aligns itself more closely to his beliefs? That's an option, right?
Yes. I completely agree. He isnt being jailed because he doesnt agree with "transgender stuff" though.
as already explained GPs are self employed. are they going to sack themselves?
Yep. I'm allowed have racist beliefs. No-one can stop me having them and it's not illegal for me to think/believe racist things (I don't think/believe them btw)
The same is true about homophobic/antisemitic/transphobic/sexist etc... It's not illegal to believe any of those things.
And a lot of those beliefs could be triggered by religion. There's plenty of that stuff in religion. And the more extreme religions are choc full of them. Think of the westboro baptist church (Or the Burkes)
It is however wrong and illegal for me to force any of those beliefs on a child in a classroom. I couldn't go into a school and refuse to talk to same sex parents because I think gay marriage is wrong. I can't refuse to teach a gay/black/jewish student. I can't say or do anything to demean them. I can't do anything negative based on who they are. I have to treat each equally and with respect.
Saw that. Comments are being moderated, so not much point posting the actual facts.
So kindly explain then why teachers in other schools are not required to change careers as you say, when they or their schools decline to teach parts of the SPHE or RSE curricula? https://www.thejournal.ie/varadkar-shortall-sex-education-5423557-Apr2021/
Should we require all the various GPs up and down the state to change careers because they won't offer pregnancy termination advice?
Lot of double standards as regards this chap. He's clearly making an issue out of it but it takes two to have a row.
Oh totally- that’s why I think there’s an alternative motive playing out here- the guy is very intelligent - he’s on a personal quest for whatever reason and has tried to make a mountain out of a mole hill and he’s now resting in Mountjoy - he can stay there for all I care but if The daily mail is anything to go by, he’ll likely be the leader of an anti transgender movement by the end of the week 😂
It might be agenda but it might also just be a lack of reading comprehension. The "pronouns" group aren't the brightest.
The distinction needs to be made between a matter of courtesy, accommodation and understanding (calling the student by their preferred name and pronoun) and a matter of personal beliefs. By agreeing to the former, one can still be opposed to / not believe in transgenderism.
The pronouns the student asked to be used in reference to them were "they/them" which are actually gender neutral.
By using those pronouns Burke would not have been "changing" their gender, as it wouldn't have identified them as any/either gender at all.
As far as I'm concerned, Burke had no right to refuse to call the student by whatever name they requested.
I hope he enjoys Mountjoy.
How many times does this have to be repeated? - I think we should just keep quoting this post at the start of every page- I can see what’s happening here and it happens a lot in CA threads- posters hop in and minimise the situation or totally misrepresent what the situation is and many do it deliberately to derail the thread and get their own agenda out there-it’s happening too much in this thread for it to be a total innocent lack of awareness of the reason the teacher is currently behind bars
Nope, he was suspended after publicly humiliating the child at an event by making a speech about it at a service, then going on to harass his boss after to the point where others had to physically restrain him.
He had already made his views clear before that and was not suspended for them.
I’ve a theory that’s what he’s looking to do anyway.
he is after all a published writer so teaching is not his sole skill - he’s now slowly gaining international attention - watch this space
https://www.amazon.com/Hedonism-Homosexuality-John-Piper-Allberry-ebook/dp/B08DTJ3BWW/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=m6pWw&content-id=amzn1.sym.38bb2fca-b288-4f86-afed-5132328a7c6d&pf_rd_p=38bb2fca-b288-4f86-afed-5132328a7c6d&pf_rd_r=48V5KDN304NV5WA55A8H&pd_rd_wg=fKSC2&pd_rd_r=4f59dc70-f3b8-40a0-a909-d9fffa08bc6a&ref_=aufs_ap_sc_mbl
He clearly doesn't give a **** about the well being of the students if he's willing to go on rant about an individual student in front of the school. That is not remotely admirable and is potentially damaging to the student's mental health.
If you're suspended from any job and continue to show up, the employer will have no issue getting an injunction. So it would play out exactly the same.
Trans women are biologically male. That’s a fact. As I’ve asked before, what science backs up any of this? What test confirms your gender?
as is normal with the burkes the problem is with their behaviour not their beliefs.
you know what i wrote and you misinterpreted it on purpose.
Fawning over a childs pronouns is not child welfare. another post asserting things I didn't say. what is this ? some sort of brainwashing or gaslighting exercise?
Burke should have left the child out of it and had it out with the authority or authorities. he should have taken his suspension to court publicly. acquiescing to this gender nonsense is a cowards way out that most will do and I admire him for his principals if not his entire method of execution ,.
I meant the suspension but I think you knew that and just made up something to get a dig at his overt Christianity. weird.
the suspension was because of his behaviour at a school event and harassing the principal. I'm not sure how many times this has been said already on the thread but it is a lot.
He has the right to his beliefs the same as the rest of us.
But if his beliefs clash with his career, he's two choices - change beliefs or change career, simple as.
Was the suspension not because he refused to use the pronouns? The injunction etc was then sought due to his harassment via his behaviour at the school dinner/event?
That was my understanding of how the events unfolded. But I'm happy enough to be corrected, if I'm wrong.
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