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Child Item

Open fencing between Phoenix Park Racecourse and Deerpark Drive

daymobrew

The developer of Phoenix Park Racecourse has submitted a planning application to change the fencing between it and Deerpark.

Looking at the map there is an opportunity to create an opening between the racecourse and the green on Deerpark Drive. It would benefit those going to/from Navan Road Parkway train station (and any bus on Navan Road) and students attending Edmund Rice secondary school.

Here's a StreetView from Deerkpark Drive: https://goo.gl/maps/wrh6WY3efvTWMgaW9

The current Fingal Development Plan 2017-2023 includes objectives to ensure connections between new and existing estates.

Objective PM61: Ensure permeability and connections between public open spaces including connections between new and existing spaces, in consultation to include residents.

Objective DMS56: Integrate and provide links through adjoining open spaces to create permeable and accessible areas, subject to Screening for Appropriate Assessment and consultation, including the public, as necessary.

This is a great opportunity to create some permeability. I thinking about making a submission before the 5 September deadline.

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Comments

Larbre34

Work away, but I can't see the Deerpark set being in favour, so it'll come down to a long string of appeals.

See the row between residents of Sefton Park and the developers of Honeypark in Dun Laoghaire for precedent.

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119555521#Comment_119555521

I completely expect that it has zero chance of being approved but I'll probably go ahead to propose something that the officials should have been thinking about when the original development was planned.

Flinty997

over reach and it certainly will not get approved.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058261370/open-fencing-between-phoenix-park-racecourse-and-deerpark-drive

It is certainly something that should be approved. Dublin 15 is full of walls blocking off easy pedestrian access.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119564402#Comment_119564402

That's because they were blocked off due to problems with them.

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565243#Comment_119565243

If we made changes because of a small number of negative experiences we'd ban cars :-)

Blocking things off is a quick (and lazy) solution and punishes the vast majority that are not causing problems.

Flinty997

But we do ban cars... at times and certain locations.

There is a balance between permeability and other factors. You're only looking at from one perspective.

But every location is different and should be looked at it own merits.

daymobrew

I'm listening. What other perspectives am I not looking at?

Flinty997

Why they often close them in the first place.

Flinty997

I wonder would many from deerpark be sending kids to that school and going to the train station. If that's the carrot.

hardybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565243#Comment_119565243

I doubt that stands up. Three openings in the Georgian Village that'd be all be blocked off it that was the case.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119569032#Comment_119569032

I'd say going forward most children from the area will be going there, and it'll hopefully help more kids walk to school.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119571691#Comment_119571691

The ones that aren't (or weren't) blocked obviously didn't have problems. The ones that were did. Thought that would be self explanatory.

But its fair to say Deerpark and Georgian Village should be similar. That sets a precedent nearby.

AlanG

Sounds like an excellent idea to open the fence. More safe connectivity to the train will have a very positive impact.

Duine_Eigin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119558425#Comment_119558425

This access to Deerpark already got approval in principle as part of the previous planning application (FW20A/0023) for the new houses in the Edmund Rice end of the racecourse. In their conditions, the planners have asked for a revised landscape plan showing the connection between the new estate and Deerpark Drive. See the snip below from the condition of the planning decision. My understanding is that this will be provided to the planners before the commencement of works and it won't need to be submitted as part of a new planning application, it just needs to be approved by the planners.

Flinty997

All sorted so.

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573933#Comment_119573933

Thanks for linking to that application and condition #5.

I'm a bit concerned because the developer said that there have been repeated objections from Deerpark Residents Associations and public representatives.

Larbre34

Nothing is sorted. It'll end up in the Four Courts in about three years time.

Former Former Former

The only people who'd actually benefit from such an access point would be the people of Deerpark, so if they don't want it, what's the issue?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119576240#Comment_119576240

The school would benefit from a greater catchment area in walking distance.

The people in Dublin 15 in general would benefit from a reduction in car journeys.

The businesses in Castleknock village would get access to more customers in walking distance.

Flinty997

I guessing Deerpark and around Castleknock in general has the oldest demographic and the least amount of children in D15. Again guessing, I reckon the majority of kids going to that school will be from new estates and a good amount will travel to it due not being able to get a place in a local school. But the few I know are planning to get the train to it.

From observation that train station has the fewest passengers getting on/of the train. Though that might improve with the new housing nearby. I don't see access from Deerpark to the train/school being off much interest to many in Deerpark. By not many I mean enough to create public demand to open it.

I could be completely wrong. They could always open it with a locked/time gate on a trial basis. See how it works out. No one ever seems to want to try that. Be interesting to see how it works out

Flinty997

As with most of these threads I doubt anyone here is local to this.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119578116#Comment_119578116

How do you define local?

I live in Dublin 15, I am familiar with the Edmund Rice School from their time in Blanchardstown Village.

I have an interest in increasing permeability for pedestrians and cyclists across Dublin 15, particularly as a means of reducing car travel.

Sure, I don't live in Deerpark, but that just means I am not a NIMBY.

daymobrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119578106#Comment_119578106

If school children take the 37 bus it would be a little quicker to get off at Park View (near Phoenix Park gates) and go via such access, rather than the next stop and walking via Fairhaven Close (or one of the other similar routes).

For children in Georgian Village, the Deerpark Drive option would be quicker than the Pecks Lane/Russell Park route.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119565243#Comment_119565243

Were these "problems" anything stronger than "I don't like the look of that bunch of teenagers"?

As that's the sole (actual - lots of spurious gibberish too) reason that's ever been used for closures around me. And now that the elderly councillors who always backed that up are retired I'm hoping people look to get them reversed.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119578845#Comment_119578845

The ones I'm familiar with. Yes.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119578940#Comment_119578940

Like?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119578231#Comment_119578231

Someone living in the immediate vicinity and directly affected by it.

When some starts screaming NIMBY at the first opportunity. Its usually to promote their own interests at the expense at someone else. Rather than trying to find middle ground all it achieves is harden resistance and push people to be entrenched in no compromising standoffs. Its not productive.

hardybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119578106#Comment_119578106

A changing of the guard currently underway with a lot of younger families moving into the area.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119579230#Comment_119579230

That's what I heard alright. You'd assume now it's opened it will attract more to it from nearby.

Lot of deep refurbs in recent years in DeerPark and Castleknock in general.

I wonder will there be a boost in the membership of Brigid's GAA.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119579173#Comment_119579173

Crime.