Mod- Thread title updated to reflect what has actually happened, and the op's text link has been turned into a working link
Lazy effort op, don't do it again
Threadbanned
john123470
You can have a religious ethos without having religious prejudices.
The rest of your post needs a bit of clarfication, if you don't mind me asking: are you saying that you believe that the school should literally interpret the bible when forming it's ethos? And if so, what part of the bible should guide their decision specific to this case? I'm only vaguely familiar with Sodom and Gomorroh - forgive me - but I don't remember any themes relating to pronouns or chosen identites, so I'm guessing that's not it.
There is a can of worms around ethos and religious education and now maybe this issue. CoI is very much “whatever you’re having yourself” so they may get out of it here. The order to arrest Mr Burke did not proceed on Friday. That did not get enough examination in the media. Interesting if he stands his ground tomorrow.
There is a real class system back in force in the country. The question of public funds propping it up is really one for another day.
a lot of department of education figures and church figures looking to stifle the issue quickly
And they will probably succeed because the Dept Ed generally gives in quickly to the Anglican church in Ireland.
For one thing they're our social "betters" and for another they hold a lot of purse strings - did you check out the cost of having a child board in this school? Of course private Catholic schools are in much the same boat.
Last time I was at the dentist, the conversation turned to teenage children, and it transpired that all four of the dentists' children were boarders, one in a school with €20,000+ fees. Shades of P Flynn on the Late late, I thought.
whats in contradiction to the law exactly here?
This is the really interesting part of this case for me. Mr Burke has based his objections on religious grounds and can bring the school characteristic spirit and ethos into this.
Now I have no idea if the Governors (?) will have to decide that at any point but there has been division in the Anglican Church on it.
I think that there will be a lot of department of education figures and church figures looking to stifle the issue quickly before the issue of publicly funded religious schools acting in contradiction of the law of the land becomes a possibility.
the school has played this perfectly tbh and as smart as the burkes might be in some ways theyve come up against people just a little bit smarter in their last few public escapades.
this isnt about trans rights its about a fella unable to behave suitably after being overruled at work.
The school did not take a neutral position. Their position was stated in the original article:
The school said that it is focusing on the needs and welfare of its students and is affirming its policy in accordance with the 2000 Equal Status Act of not discriminating against any student.
It says it has acknowledged Mr Burke’s religious beliefs but expects him to communicate with the student in accordance with the students and their parent’s wishes.
I don't think I taught any trans people, I may have done, I don't know, however the first day on meeting children it was the practice for me and most of my colleagues to check what the child wanted to be called - a shortened or anglicised version of their name, or Tom or Tommy or Thomas, or Jay or Jason, or Kate, Kathy, whatever. It's not such a big leap to which pronoun they prefer. I would wonder what drew someone like this suspended individual to teaching when he reacted so badly to a simple request to address the child the way they preferred.
But doesn't this specific workplace have a very strong religious ethos?
The spiritual development of our students is pivotal to our ethos. Daily assembly features an act of worship with bible reading and prayer
Now, correct me if I'm wrong but a school with such a strong emphasis on the bible (I guess you've heard of Sodom and Gomorrah, right?) might be on shaky ground if they insist on their staff going along with such unbiblical practices as transgenderism. At the very least - and looking at this from a neutral position - there's a bit of a conundrum there, wouldn't you say?
Leaving god out of it, - the fact is that the very occasional individual has a genetic condition that is at variance with the norm.
This does not make for more than 2 sexes. Gender is a grammatical term which is now being applied to something else; at best, that something else is not properly defined, so until it becomes defined, or is recognised as a fad that comes and goes, we are probably best to be sceptical. As with all cults ...
I thought I read the principal had retired, if it's not the case, I stand corrected.
So, still no answer to my question. What is a boys name and what is a girls name.
Just avoidance and more of the same waffle.
Here's another question for you, that you probably won't answer.
If someone new started in your workplace tomorrow and introduced themselves as "Mary" what would you do if you thought they didn't "look" like a woman?
Would you say "No, I'm not calling you that, that's too feminine for you?" Ask them for their old (dead) name?
I bet money you wouldn't.
So let me get this right - trans people want to be accepted as fully male or female after transitioning?
Does not make sense because you can't fully biologically ignore your birth sex. There will still be something inherently male about a trans woman.
People should not be forced into pretending a factual truth is something else.
Sure call trans adults post op by whatever name they want but calling a teenager by a female name while still male is bollix
Lol. You're just having a pointless rant to be honest. 🤣
I'm inclined to say a lot of the people who quote him haven't read 1984, let alone anything else he wrote.
In some southern states of the US, it is still traditional for a child to be given their mother or grandmother's maiden name as their first name.
My grandmother's maiden name was Ellis. I think it would be a lovely first name for either a boy or a girl. :)
Fair enough. I thought your "experiment" had more practical undertakings, hence the confusion. AS it is, it's not really relevant to the situation so I'll leave this here if you don't mind.
I'd say there are a good few and they know when an idiot quotes it without comprehension.
Hearing has no bearing on the thought experiment I'm positing. If a trans person wants you to accept their subjective reality when interacting with them that is one thing. When they want you to accept their subjective reality when interacting with a 3rd party that is not metaphysically possible outside of room 101.
Your point was that people don't hear their pronouns because they're not present? And i highlighed a scenario where the person WAS present and DID hear the pronouns.
Yes or no?
I once knew a boy who's middle name was Tracey. Always thought that a bit odd until I found out it was his mother's maiden name.
No that's my point if the trans person can't hear it how can they ask someone to behave in a particular way, that's subjective realism and is the antithesis of science. A simple analogy is most kids called their teacher sir/miss etc in school but outside of school they aren't expected to use those titles when talking about those teachers to friends. The "reality " of school cannot be imposed outside the school. Similarly a trans person can reasonably expect another reasonable person to accept their reality when interacting with them but can't expect that person to continue accepting their subjective reality when they are a million miles away
Splitting hairs. The point is, pronouns were used in the presence of the person they were referring to, and therefore would be heard by said person.
If that wasn't your point, then my apologies - but, what was?
Noone is asking for their name to be replaced by a pronoun.
We dont need to do that. Trans people were legally recognised in 2015.
Not really. Can you point to where exactly the COI considers it blasphemous for trans people to exist then?
That's not what I asked you. I asked you to define what is a boys name and what is a girls name.
You said you would only call someone by their legal name, but now you've changed your mind, and shortening a name or using a nickname is different.
Explain how it is different, please.
But that's a third party talking to you not a 1st /2nd party conversation. Again have you ever had a conversation with another human where either of you have referred to the other using only pronouns? Something tells me you haven't.
Yes, when being introduced. "Hi, this is my friend Princess - she's an artist from Dublin."
(That said it was the wrong pronoun, but Princess has more important things to worry about!)
Many Christian fundamentalists don't accept transgender practices or ideology. It runs contrary to their faith. They would say that transgenders are denying the reality of who god made them, or something to that effect. So they would be sinning if they went along with it.
And those who are transgender and transitioning will tell you that it is they who are accepting the reality of "who god made them".
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