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Do touts still hang around outside venues?

Toast

As a few of you know I'm a founder and admin of toutless.com which we setup back in 2008 to help fans sell tickets to each other at face value. Back in the day it was not uncommon to have touts hang outside venues and buy low and sell high and the idea of Toutless was to cut out that middleman.

Since then things have changed quite a bit. Tickets are on their way to going entirely digital, so is money somewhat. We've had a pandemic that shut down events for near 2 years and we've also seen legislation brought in to make it illegal to tout (except apparently if your name is Ticketmaster).

I've only been at a few small gigs in Whelan's and the NCH since the post pandemic return and I didn't see any touts but it's questionable if they would have attracted touts even in the past so I am curious if any of the above changes in the landscape have removed the "on the ground" touts.

Has anyone seen the lads outside shouting "anyone / buying or selling tickets?". Are they still there but more subtle? If they're still around how do they handle the digital ticket messing?

As a bonus question do people still assume if they needed to go to a sold out show if they threw enough money at the problem they'd be assured they'd get in?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

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Toast

The original batch of Caribou tickets posted in 2020 are hard copy and not digital. I have a couple of these myself.

You can't digitally resell / transfer printed tickets (you could request a refund as the event is rescheduled though but some people don't appear to be aware of that). Typically all the recent events in the major venues will use digital tickets and allow transfer but I don't know what rules the Ticketmaster's reselling process uses as to when it is active or not but it seems to shutdown a week or so before the event when it is available. For some gigs it seems to be never available even though transfer is. I'd imagine people avoid it due to it being inconsistently available.

Limited tickets might mean there are tickets in the system for accessibility use or otherwise reserved from being purchased by the general public. It has nothing to do with reselling being available or not.

pjcb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295855#Comment_119295855

I got a ticket for Caribou this morning via ticketmaster.

Was ticketmaster not selling (Caribou) tickets as digital in 2020?

I wouldn't avoid a reliable way to sell tickets if it was available.

bodhrandude

Only ever bought from an online tout once, Viagogo back in 2007 when the Electric Picnic sold out, I paid 300 sterling for a ticket back then as I was living in Edinburgh. When I think about the prices getting charged for EP tickets in 2018 and 2019 mines seems like a bit of a bargain. Have never bought from a tout in the street but have seen them outside the Glasgow Apollo at gigs. I always remember a scene from the 'Lost' Wall documentary about the Floyd road crew setting up the show and the camera shooting to this tout outside Earls Court selling a wad of Floyd tickets. Worth seeking out as the doc would be as good as the one Channel 4 called Behind The Wall.

Go in about 17.30 mins in for the tout.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmn4IUi6Omk

Strumms

If an individual gets their hands on 20 tickets using various credit / debit cards. Theirs, family, friends…If they make 20 euros profit on each. That’s 500 euros profit for very little time and effort. Probably 3 hours work.

5 gigs a month that it’s worth their while doing that for that’s around 2500 cash into their pocket. That’s 30,000 cash in hand a year.

only overheads… Ticketmaster fees ( maybe ) and a bus to the venue.

its lucrative, profitable… illegal now yeah but I’m willing to bet nobody has ever been arrested for ticket touting….

Toast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296248#Comment_119296248

Screenshot_20220706-092209_Samsung Internet.jpg

They might have provided an option for digital tickets but a lot of people, including me, prepandemic used to prefer getting physical tickets mailed out as people trusted them more if you had to resell them. The Ticketmaster transfer feature is relatively new.

pjcb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296930#Comment_119296930

when did these Caribou tickets go on sale first, this gig was first due to be held in July 2020? This article announced digital tickets a transfer and reselling in November 2019 https://www.siliconrepublic.com/business/ticketmaster-digital-tickets-transfer-resale-ireland

Is it not possible to resell your "physical" tickets online via ticketmaster with a code number? https://help.ticketmaster.com/s/article/I-m-trying-to-sell-my-tickets-and-it-s-asking-for-a-barcode-number-where-can-I-find-that?language=en_US

Toast

You seem to find this hard to swallow that yes tickets for Caribou sold that were not digital in spite of me showing you a screenshot of just that. They went on sale October 2019 so that predates the date of your article (and even then that did NOT just enable magically one night for everything). It is clearly visible in my screenshot the resale and transfer options are NOT available for these tickets.

Even for digital tickets the resale option seems to be available on some arbitrary set of rules which is why people still use alternatives to shift tickets as they find that resale option unavailable when they actually need it.

FullBack Jam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296422#Comment_119296422

I don’t know about that. There’s a few issues that would go against that opportunity.

The way the ticketing has gone recently (i.e. online, digital etc.), not that many people will buy of touts. I don’t think I would anymore. I have in the past on the very very odd occasion. I never got stung by any fraud, but I would never again. Don’t need to. Tickets nearly always become available. I did pay €100 for a €30 ticket for Sigur Ros in the Olympia back in the day. That was worth it. But I got one lovely one on the touts. Got a Radiohead ticket for €30, when they cost €90. Gig had already started in the 3Arena, and I was the only left outside. I enquired about a price. Was told it would be mine for €70. I said I had €30, and wasn’t that pushed. He cursed me and called me names. But still gave it to me in the end for €30.
Realistically, do you think family and friends of a tout are going to spend time logging on to buy tickets on a regular basis.
You give an example of 5 gigs per month. There is no way that there are 5 gigs per month in Ireland that are “properly” sold out. I put the properly in inverted commas as I’m not talking about concerts that Ticketmaster say are sold out, and then it turns out there are dozens of tickets floating around on the day of the gig for a third of the price. I can only think of one concert this year that would be lucrative – Olivia Rodrigo. Not a ticket to be found. Other than that, there were plenty of tickets for other high profile gigs as the days got closer to the gigs. There were couple of touts outside Fontaines DC on Sunday evening. Looking for €50 per ticket. Not a chance. Nobody there looking for tickets. I think with so much gone online, that even the day of people turning up to gigs looking for tickets has gone. The idea is that if a ticket cannot be bought online, then feck it.
Lastly, and sorry for the smart ass – but 20 x 20 = 400.

Everlong1

Saw one or two outside the Iveagh Gardens for Fontaines DC last weekend.

BronsonTB

None outside the sold out Napalm Death gig a few weeks ago.

skaface

They were Outside 3Arena for Madness on Saturday night selling tickets

sydthebeat

been to a couple of 3arean gigs post covid, and each time there was a small handful of touts just outside the luas gates.

Patrick2010

5 gigs a month that it’s worth their while doing that for that’s around 2500 cash into their pocket. That’s 30,000 cash in hand a year.

only overheads… Ticketmaster fees ( maybe ) and a bus to the venue.

its lucrative, profitable… illegal now yeah but I’m willing to bet nobody has ever been arrested for ticket touting….

Don't know about that...

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/aug/17/olympic-committee-ireland-pat-hickey-arrest-tickets

Irish Olympic head Pat Hickey arrested in alleged ticket touting inquiry

Hotblack Desiato

Surely their family and friends are getting a cut?

kmurph

Few touts outside Arcade Fire on Tuesday night, along with the dodgy t-shirt sellers.

AMfan

Recently nearly bought a ticket outside a popular venue in Dublin. He had 3 e tickets all the same ticket....clearly wouldn't scan.....brought me up to doorman who said would be no issue with this if buying off this individual.....sad to see doorman in on it some way

v10

A few around outside the Olympia theatre on Monday at Bono's event, Plenty of shouts for "Any spare tickets?" ..

Zardoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119910807#Comment_119910807

Yip the same old street touts, very dodgy looking.

Doubt they were selling below face value for that event I'd imagine.

RolandGoose

Thanks for Toutless toast! An excellent site that I have successfully used many times. I am one of the people who liked to keep a ticket stub as a memento after a gig... I guess with the move to e-tickets this will no longer be possible! My gig going days are sadly numbered anyway... 100e+ becoming the norm for a concert ticket is too excessive. Nevermind Ticketmaster openly touting and selling tickets direct for 4 times face value. Sickening!

Beasty

Only time I ever bought from a tout was back in 1986. Queen were playing Maine Road in Manchester and I was living around a mile away. Wandered up as the first support was on, and they were all desperately trying to offload tickets. I ended up paying less than a tenner for a £13 ticket, and walked straight in and pretty much to the front just as the second support, Status Quo, were entering the stage

Tauriel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119910807#Comment_119910807

Had that last night at the Nightwish concert in the 3 Arena but it looked as though he asked the 3 Arena staff could he do it and they had no problem. Looked like he had physical tickets for the show.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914848#Comment_119914848

So what you're saying is that they couldn't fill Maine Road even with Queen there 😁

Beasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119919496#Comment_119919496

Touting is a profession in Manchester. In those days it was all paper tickets, and touts would probably buy at a fraction of the face value from people turning up with spares, or at face value from places like Piccadilly Records in the city centre. They will be charging a fortune when people were arriving at the venue, and making their profit then. The last thing they want though is unsold tickets and will drop their prices accordingly

Of course sometimes they will sell everything at a lot more than it cost, and on other occasions they will end up with tickets they just want anything they can get

These were early days of "stadium rock" in the UK. Looking at the relevant wiki page it shows an attendance of 35,000. The Kippax stand (which was along the side, rather than at the end, of the pitch), probably accommodated 20,000 fans for a match, maybe 15,000 for a gig. The pitch could accommodate as many again, and there was another 2 stands of seating, so I reckon the stadium could get well over 40,000 for a gig in those days (and I also see it was an estimated 38,000 at St James' Park, which was a smaller stadium at the time with about 2/3rds the capacity of Maine Road for matches)

[Deleted User]

Bought tickets to Frank Sinatra landsdowne road from touts in late 80s- wasn’t too much over asking price to be fair and forever grateful that I can say I saw olde blue eyes .

spindex

3 of the rats outside the academy for Wet leg tonight. I'd say they judge demand by looking at toutless and decide to try their luck then.

skaface

Outside 3 Arena the other night at The Cure..

FullBack Jam

It seems like the touts have infiltrated the toutles.com site. i had asked a couple of members on toutless re Fontaines DC tickets. It was right before the gig was about to start. 2 of them got back to me to say they had tickets for any night that I wanted. One gave me his number to meet him around Vicar st in 10 mins. I rang 15 mins later to say that I was delayed and was on the way then, He got really think saying he had waited around for me, but that he was gone home. He then tried to pressurise me into buying tickets for Thurs or Friday night because I had wasted his time. Some chancer.

If buying from someone dodgy, make sure not to part with cash until they accompany you to the ticket scanners, and that the tickets work. Touts can be very convincing.I love getting one over on them - asking them for a ticket right before a gig, knowing that they are stuck with them. And then giving a ridiculous offer like €20. When they refuse, I walk away, but they always call me back. And then give the ticket, along with a list of expletitives at me.

mondeoman72

The trick they use is they advertise on the web. Say they are going as well, but carry on selling outside the venue. I bought tickets to a show in vicar st and yer man text to say he was delayed. I rang him back and his was standing on the corner at the big window selling them. He was using the excuse of "I'm delayed" to hedge his bets and use me as a fail safe so he wouldnt get caught with any left.

I got him doing it so within 2 minutes of him doing it, I had blocked his access to the website. Maybe Toast could do the same.

I HATE touts.

Toast

There's a report system on Toutless. Please use it if you feel someone is dodgy or whatnot.

fafy

Has anyone used Toutless ? have 2 tickets to shift, signed up etc. but cannot post or send any PM’s( they stay in outbox)to the many people who are looking for them.