But it's not extra game time. By playing three games in SA, they're missing three rounds of URC.
Net effect = zero. No?
There is extra game time tho; there’s an extra 80 mins x 15 x 3 = an extra 3,600 minutes that we didn’t have in previous seasons.
That will have to be managed in terms of player welfare.
I’m not saying it’s jeopardous but it is a consideration.
But everyone is condemning them for a lack of player welfare by then increasing the number of games this season.... which they have history with as well.
WR should not be sanctioning these out of window games in the name of player welfare.
It's pure profiteering on the backs of the players
But if Prendergast (or whoever) didn't travel, he'd be training and playing in Ireland the whole time anyway. There's no extra gametime and they're as likely to get injured in the URC as they are on tour.
The opposition is irrelevant here. The environment is what is important. Getting more lads time into an Irish camp with the Irish coaches in the limited time left before the WC is a great idea, considering a few of these boys might be on the bubble or end up as injury cover - they'll be able to fit right in without any disruption.
Normally when Ireland play, people want 15 brand new uncapped players under the age of 24 or else we're not building depth for the future. For those people, I thought this would be a wet dream.
Honestly people are looking for downsides here when there really aren't any.
I think the potential for injury is another downside. If someone like, say, Cian Prendergast arrived back with a long-term injury, I think Connacht fans would have reason to feel aggrieved.
Ultimately, it's additional game-time, outside a Test window, in an already stretched calendar.
But in reality the provinces will likely field stronger teams during this tour as they'll need frontliners to play in games they might not ordinarily play in, I'm really not convinced that this will somehow diminish the URC. But the point you quote here is about those younger players benefiting from the tour which should make them better players, and that should help the provinces longer term. Honestly people are looking for downsides here when there really aren't any.
I've no doubt that in the long term it benefits the provinces too.
Unfortunately I have several doubts. By far the best thing for the provinces is to have a URC with competitive teams, with every union fully committed to it.
Yes, the Welsh carping on about joining the Premiership is annoying, particularly when they are so uncompetitive - but we are not exactly countering their argument that we don't think the league seriously.
This is exactly the point, it's much less about he matches and much more about the environment, systems and expectations in the camp on tour. From the coaching pov it's often the case that in a tournament you end up press ganging in players to cover injuries/covid/suspensions by bringing in players not part of the original squad, they need to slot in and maybe play almost immediately in matches that are potentially WC knockouts. If this tour pays off in one or two situations like that it's well worth it, never mind the benefits to players themselves from being part of this kind of tour. I've no doubt that in the long term it benefits the provinces too.
In fairness Wales crap on the league by being in it.
I’d say firstly having two extra tests means having a bigger squad with the extra players being sort of bag holders and secondly I’d say this is about getting players into a proper touring camp, with leadership groups and meetings based around that squad.
I wonder if any other options were considered.
Would Farrell get similar benefits from hosting a couple of out of window tests against tier 2 opposition.
Extend the Autumn Internationals. Send out the emerging players against Samoa on 29 October and Japan on 26 November.
Wales and South Africa are playing out of competition tests and no one is accusing them of crapping on the league.
Everyone but Farrell I believe.
Why people think minutes against Currie cup teams is good prep for test rugby is beyond me.
Do you question the purpose of the Irish team playing the under 20’s as prep for the 6N too?
Ah. So probably all the staff except AF? So they'll build their working relationships with all the staff except AF and that's not good?
look at the emerging ireland squad from 2013 below, ive bolded those who went on to have a half decent test career (more than 10 caps).
EMERGING IRELAND Squad (Tblisi Cup, Georgia):
Michael Allen (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) *
Michael Bent (Dublin University/Leinster)
Andrew Conway (Blackrock College/Leinster) *
John Cooney (Lansdowne/Leinster) *
Sean Cronin (St. Mary’s College/Leinster)
David Foley (UL Bohemians/Munster) *
Eoin Griffin (Galwegians/Connacht) *
Cathal Marsh (Dublin University/Leinster) *
Michael Heaney (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) *
Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster) *
David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster) *
Ian Keatley (Young Munster/Munster)
Richard Lutton (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) *
Brendan Macken (Blackrock College/Leinster) *
Jack McGrath (St. Mary’s College/Leinster) *
Eoin McKeon (Galwegians/Connacht) *
Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster) *
Niall Morris (Leicester Tigers) *
Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster) *
Ian Nagle (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
Robbie Diack (Malone/Ulster) *
Tiernan O’Halloran (Galwegians/Connacht) *
Rhys Ruddock (St. Mary’s College/Leinster) (capt)
Dominic Ryan (Lansdowne/Leinster) *
John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
Lewis Stevenson (Malone/Ulster) *
thats not a bad return from a "seconds" squad. if we could get anything close to that from this SA tour we'd be doing extremely well
not sure if thats rhetorical, yes the regular staff is going. which is something. But AF is the main man and the fact he won´t be there (for whatever reasons) just makes the claim that its about working with people less valid imo.
Ah right. I thought AF wasn't going but I didn't realise none of the regular staff were going. Who is going instead?
Andy Farrell isn´t going. so its a misnomer to be saying its about working with staff. the head coach won´t be here, and the buck stops with him. so it can´t be about working with staff etc.
some of you guys will praise anything the IRFU do. you can´t polish a turd. this tour is a dud just accept that.
It's not just playing the teams or flying to South Africa. It's the fact that these guys will be building working relationships with the Ireland staff, traveling to do a tour, being core and leadership team members in the match week, working on strategy and analysis, making decisions as core player during the game.
You can pick any single element of that and say you don't get why anyone would think it's good prep. But how you can look at the whole package and not conclude it's good prep is very strange. And the conclusion that you think it's just about wearing a green jersey (surely a minor part of the whole thing) is a silly strawman.
But AF isn´t even going?
the only way this will be in any way interesting is if the true wodnerkids are picked. you´re talking way left field picks, even guys like Edogbo or Okeke, Campbell say. Guys like Penny, Ahern and the others.with a few of the maori dirt trackers thrown in to test their leadership in a youngish group.
if its the same team as the Maoris then its just going to disrupt massively and Ire will learn nothing. i mean i know the latter is most likely.
The young lads get a chance to be front and centre with the coaches, rather than holding tackle bags and being the 'other guys' in training drills.
That's good for them and even if the coaches find two or three guys who can rise up the pecking order, that would be an OK outcome.
Whether it's worth trekking all the way to SA and denuding the provinces, I'm not sure, but since it's happening regardless, might as well take some positives from it.
This is not a solution to the constant refrain of "when will the young lads get a chance to play and improve". It is very weird that people think this.
They are flying to South Africa to play teams that are worse than the teams they play week in, week out for their club. But apparently, because they're going to be wearing a green jersey and staying in a hotel this is going to be super valuable.
Ah, sure. It could be better if they had a different opposition. But why let the perfect be thr enemy of the good?
Going abroad and playing unfamiliar opposition gives it a different feel to playing very familiar AIL teams. As core tour players they'll be working as the main men with coaches, doing the analysis, forming leadership groups, working on strategy, managing the referee and not looking to Jonny or POM to make the decisions and change tactics on the field during the game.
This is a solution to the constant referain "when will the young lads get a chance to play and improve". If you can find a lot to whinge about in all that, then I don't know what to tell you.
Pointing it out is grand, whinging about it as ot it invalidates the point of the tour seems pretty cool around here though.
It'll be a 35-man squad according to the official IRFU announcement. Or "35-player" was the wording that was actually used. Maybe some women will make the cut. Personally, I think that's unlikely, though.
I honestly don't see the huge problem. Sh*tting on the league has practically been a full time job around here for a long while now.
Is it though? Maybe if it was the Golden Lions, Western Province, and Blue Bulls they were playing - ie the Currie Cup counterparts of the URC sides. Wouldn’t this be like saying that if an Emerging Springboks team was coming here to play Munster “A” and Leinster “A” players would be sent from the senior Connacht and Ulster sides to bolster other provinces “A” teams?
I think it a great idea.. strange that AF might not be going himself. But great experience for everyone else coaches, physios, analysts and players involved..
Hopefully they might even be able to revive some of the wolfhound games, even with just the other URC nations during the 6 nations.. especially if the u20 tournament is not played at the same time as the senior 6 nations
Given the nature of the SA teams in question I don't think it's beyond the bounds of possibility that SA could release some "emerging" players from their URC panels to turn out in these games.
