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The Pushback against Leftism

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    The Gay Pride movement. Aren’t most trans straight?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Or gender. Many gay people are attracted to people of the same gender. Plus of course trans people can be gay also.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Its mixed. Trans people can be straight, gay, bi just like Cis people can.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    No.

    Thats lies. They had more than 1 sign. They tried to bully their way to the head of the parade. Most people in the parade and crowd - including many LGB people took exception to their hate.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So, just to be clear, the Q in LGBQ now actually represents the T. Yes? (as it would have been the Q in those photos)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,005 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    @AllForIt

    Because in these photos what you see here is homosexual men.

    You don't know that.

    In the pic below, it's certainly reasonable to assume that the people at the centre could be transgender. Unless one actually talks to them, how would one know for sure? The only transgender man I ever met, and is likely to ever meet, looked like a transvestite. And if I hadn't had known about their personal circumstances, it would have been difficult to tell the difference.

    Untitled-1.jpg


    The point of my reply to Fandymo was to illustrate his "error" in the sentence "Strange that when you look at the pioneers of pride etc, the ones who risked everything to push for their rights, there are no men in dresses in any of the footage."

    His carefully cherrypicked photo was easily countered with other photos clearly disproving his message.

    Transgenderism has been part of these movements for decades. It isn't a new thing, even if it's a relatively small subset of a small community. People have also been transitioning for decades too. There may be some friction within these communities; there's often disagreement within groupings of any kind. But the fact remains that within the gay culture, for want of a better word, trans people found acceptance by and large, whereas outside of it they didn't.

    What I don't get is why there is such a need from certain quarters to disparage trans people at all.



  • Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No, sex. The very definition of homosexuality is attraction to members of the same sex. It's why gay dudes don't have intimate relations with those who have vaginas, and lesbians don't have intimate relations with those who have penises.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    SOME gay men and lesbians do not want intimate relationships with trans people. Others are perfectly fine with it.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That's not what I said. I said homosexuality means exclusive attraction to those of the same sex. I don't know one gay person who is interested in anyone of the opposite biological sex, whatever their gender expression is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,312 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    So if Elliott paige starts a relationship with a woman is he gay or straight? Before the sex change they were gay



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,231 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    poor people would benefit by being given 30,000 euros. That doesn’t mean it should be enabled to them. .



  • Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Questioning the illogical is not transphobia. People should stop distorting its meaning.



  • Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Trans man interested in women - same sex attraction.

    All these hetero bro's who mansplain to women what we should be calling women... they'd have sex with trans women would they? Sure thang.



  • Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Whereas Trans advocates get to redefine what it meant to be gay/bisexual? Because that's what you're doing. What makes you so privileged to decide what homosexuality or bisexuality relates to? (while other can't)

    Any questioning, criticism or opposition to the wide variety of Trans beliefs is Transphobic. Either you support them completely or you're a transphobe. There is no middle ground.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    You’ve spun me. I don’t know what way is up in your argument.

    3F018966-FC1E-4F9B-96BE-17F725339A24.jpeg

    Do you want just a left vs right hegemony? Or do you want less hegemony, ie. A broader spectrum than left vs right… ie, LGBTQIA+?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    This take appears to contain cognitive dissonance: special pleading of the facts to the incident (not the full facts) and ad hominem of “the looney left”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I believe it’s just called Pride Movement now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Top outrage from the right today: gender affirming care, that a child can give informed consent to

    Me, circumcised at birth without my consent: ?!?



  • Posts: 33,400 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Strangely enough, there's a difference between giving people money and providing medical treatment.

    How come this is the only medical treatment that you want to withhold?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,177 ✭✭✭Fandymo


    The history books will look upon this decade or so as an absolute lunatic asylum.

    Between looneys breaking down screaming crying because Trump got elected, to the almost worldwide lockdowns, men being women and women having penises.

    Hopefully this coming global recession refocuses minds and common sense makes a comeback.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,231 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Not from the point of view of it costing money.


    lots of people are not enabled with medical treatments which they ‘need’… the state our country and healthcare services are in ensures that.

    you say it’s treatment ? I say a procedure. Surgery being the procedure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,312 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    I think you could probably look at previous decades the same way. Every decade has good and the bad ideas. At least now in Ireland we treat gays equally , allow abortions and have minimised the influence of the Catholic Church on society. The poorist will suffer the most in a recession so would not be wishing for that.



  • Posts: 33,400 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There’s a difference between services not being available for resource reasons and services not being available because some people who have no particular skin in the game find it a bit icky.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,631 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    IT's like we are living under a Monarchy and the King has gone completely nuts.

    In a so called climate emergency Goverments are making food and energy more expensive but leaving social media alone despite the drain in energy those destructive platforms have!

    So called far right fascists refuse to impose authoritarian government restrictions on their populations while the "freedom loving liberals" shut as much down for as long as they could imposing on people's basic human rights...I used to think Canada was a liberal democracy to be admired, the fascist leader froze the bank accounts of protesters, the same government issues licences to journalists!!!



  • Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The poorist will suffer the most in a recession so would not be wishing for that.

    Actually, that's not strictly true, as they're most likely to receive government and NGO supports to help cushion them. The middle class are more likely to be hit the hardest with loss in property values, savings/pensions being hit, state taxes rising to compensate, etc.

    Still, I don't think anyone is wishing for a recession, but rather it's an unavoidable aspect of our economic models.



    Hopefully this coming global recession refocuses minds and common sense makes a comeback.

    There is some merit to the idea that all these first world problems decline in importance during a recession, although, I don't think we're anywhere near the point where this stuff will be put behind us. Not enough damage has been done yet to people. There's not enough broken lives, and horror stories to establish a mainstream resistance to all the nutty ideas. Yet. I suspect we're waiting for a generation to grow up, experience life under all these procedures/concepts, and then, come back to us with all the negatives. Those following their crusades aren't anywhere ready to acknowledge the dangers involved, so they'll need plenty of evidence that their crusading led to terrible results (that can't easily be ignored). Not that they'll ever admit it, though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,312 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    We have had quite a number of recessions here in Ireland over the decades yet they never produced this common sense you speak of. We believed in moving statues, locking unmarried mothers up in workhouses, preventing unhappy couples from getting divorces. Sure we could define what a woman was but we always have believed in some sort of nutty ideas, especially in the past.



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  • Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You would rather go back to the good old days when trans people had the decency to go away and commit suicide in the quiet privacy of their own homes. No craziness there at all. Whilst we're at it we can roll back the rights of those upperty gays.

    Lives are been saved and people are been allowed to live their full lives - that is what is actually happening with trans rights.



This discussion has been closed.
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