I think wycherly x2 travel. Kendellen with an eye to the future! Connors should go, Penny? Possibly. McCarthy; Thornbury and Nurray should go. If not outer fringe and upcoming lads, what's the point?
I suppose the optimum scenario would be that Farrell selects players he thinks could be in the mix come RWC 2023, but who currently aren't getting much provincial gametime. Of course, there probably aren't too many players in that category.
Aaron Sexton and Cormac Izuchukwu would be interesting picks.
Don't agree personally, for me it wouldn't have mattered who we picked in 2019, the squad was broken at that point & we'd a coaching team who couldn't fix it.
On the topic of this mini-tour, it's an absolute joke. I can't imagine another country who would even consider something so ridiculous. Openly contemptuous to the league.
And given CVC have taken a 25% stake in the URC I think it's reasonable to assume they have received committments to ensure their investment is protected. We've seen four less fixtures to remove any overlap between Autumn Internationals and Six Nations and ensure the top players play a greater proportion.
The URC is owned and run by the unions and these same unions do not give a crap about the league, a fact that they demonstrate time and time again.
Taking players off on a junket to play currie cup teams in the middle of the league season, it's beyond a joke at this stage but they just don't care, and are barely even hiding it anymore.
I wouldn't be bringing almost any of the names above.
Anyone that traveled to New Zealand shouldn't be involved to be honest , so from the above you'd be looking at Stockdale , Haley ,O'Sullivan and Moore.
This should be about emerging players and guys that perhaps have been capped in the past but haven't been involved in a while due to injury etc.
Release agreement? The URC is essentially a union-run competition. According to Wikipedia ProRugby Wales are represented on the board, but would their presence be enough to mean there's some sort of release agreement? It's not like in England and France.
I'm surprised the URC release agreement allows for simultaneous tour of a national open (at least in terms of no age restriction) side alongside the domestic season. Given it also overlaps the first couple of weeks of the AIL as well as the URC it really is two fingers up to the provinces and club game. Suspect Ulster would be the province most affected, Lowry, Stockdale, Hume, McCloskey, Doak, O'Sullivan, O'Toole, Moore, Timoney. Munster could have Haley, Farrell, Casey, Loughman, Coombes all from the starting 23 going.
On a practical level it won't impact Leinster much, the other provinces a bit more (there has been mention of e.g. McCloskey travelling, that is a big impact on the URC for Ulster). But its symbolic of a pretty poor attitude in the IRFU to the URC and not helpful when you are trying to get people on board with a new competition.
There is a need to have a look at these guys and give them exposure to being in camp
Is there? I think its a bit of a reach to suggest there is a "need" to do something no other nation is doing. Ireland already has insane access to their players in comparison to the global standard.
Let's see what the announced squad is, but if its player just outside the current Irish 23 it will impact the provinces heavily enough and if its much more fringe players its not got much relevance to the RWC.
I think you’re seriously overstating the impact this will have on the URC
Very true , either way though there weren't enough players getting sufficient exposure to push for places - Whether that's because Mgmt just weren't picking them or because they simply weren't there, the outcome is the same.
To be fair I dont think many countries would have been able to cope with the injuries we suffered in 2015, its okay to lose plays but when the majority of you're spine is gone what can you really do.
But that's down to poor squad management rather than lack of depth, England had that exact same issue the year before.
Well , yes and no.
There were far too many players utterly guaranteed of their starting spot in both cases , in a lot of ways driven by a perceived lack of depth or at least an unwillingness to expose the next tier of player to the higher levels.
There were of course other issues , but a lack of depth/alternatives definitely played a role in the overall outcome.
So what exactly do you want them to do here.
Not have these players involved at all or perhaps have 70+ in camp for the November series?
There is a need to have a look at these guys and give them exposure to being in camp , in a touring scenario to get them acclimatised to the environment etc.
It has to be done sometime and frankly 2 weeks at the end of September seems like a far better option than other potential options.
Lack of depth was absolutely not our problem in 2019. We had almost everyone fit and healthy, think Herring was about the only injury absentee and Aki was suspended.
A lot of things went wrong in 2019 but not having enough players wasn't the issue.
And to be honest, lack of depth wasn't our problem in 2015 either. The sort of depth we'd have needed to absorb all those key absences will always be beyond a country with our player pool.
I wonder if he is getting any inside information.
The inplication here is that the squad will be a mix between fringe internationals and high potential young players who probably do belong in a provincial a squad.
This might mean that the 4 provinces are down 15 players who would have started in urc games instead of being down 30. That's a much smaller effect on the league.
They are taking 32 players out of the competition to go play Currie Cup sides in South Africa. Of course it is a slap in the face of the URC.
It remains to be seen what the squad is but there is very little chance that every player selected here is going to be replaced in the provincial squads with an international. As usual, Leinster will be fine but suspect Ulster in particular to be hard hit.
Fair enough, you're entitled to. If Murray Kinsella thinks a lack of depth was our problem in 2019 then I think he is very wrong.
I'll take Murray Kinsellas opinions over yours thanks
This mini-tour is a new venture on Ireland’s part, with head coach Andy Farrell understood to be keen to continue building depth towards next year’s World Cup and beyond.
Ireland’s relative lack of depth has been an issue at the two most recent World Cups in 2015 and 2019.
Whatever about the merits of the tour in terms of player development , the idea that it's some kind of "slap in the face" for the URC just doesn't make sense.
If anything it potentially makes the teams for those few weeks a little stronger in so far as the front line internationals will all likely be playing barring injury.
Is the URC devalued if Sexton or Carbery start because Harry Byrne or Ben Healy are in South Africa for example?
The IRFU and Andy Farrell are not omnipotent demigods. I doubt they do anything they don't see a reason for - they are regularly incorrect (as am I obviously). Also supposedly Farrell is not even going.
This is not happening in a vacuum, it is an absolute slap in the face to the URC in what should be its first uninterrupted season. It shows contempt to a competition that had been injected with something akin to a new lease of life with the South African Super Rugby teams. It was refreshing to see the enthusiasm and joy that the Stormers showed in winning the competition, but now we have the IRFU reinforcing the idea that its actually something they don't care about at all.
IRFU wont be shelling out for this unless there is benefits to it. AF won't be putting it together unless he sees benefits to it.
With no tour next summer, its a chance to bring guys a level down on a tour, away from home to get them acquainted with life in Ireland camp under the current coach, something many of those going might not have experienced previously.
Just because you don't see the benefit doesnt mean its pointless
I wonder if Farrell will be bringing 30 candidates who he is seriously looking at.
He might also be bringing 10-15 candidates he is seriously looking at and fill the squad out with young guns that would be in a provincial A squad if it had some competition.
My priorities are not with the provinces, I have concerns about the further undermining of a club/provincial tournament across 5 countries. The URC is important and this is just pointlessly causing it damage.
You want them to learn calls etc you can do that in camps in Ireland. We already give the international coaches more access to the players than most other countries could dream of. They will learn nothing playing games against utterly woeful South African sides so that element of the whole thing is just pointless.
Irelands biggest findings from the last few world cups have been lack of depth
Also this just isn't true.
Irelands biggest findings from the last few world cups have been lack of depth - something that multiple people here frequently attest to about numerous positions.
The rule of thumb appears to be to be in genuine contention to win at the highest level you need a squad that is 3 deep in every position.
This doesn't have to mean "3 very good players who represent their province to the highest degree" it means 3 players who can fill in without a significant drop in performance.
As a result I don't buy in to "oh but they play for their provinces every week" or "they play similar styles of rugby" etc etc.
What we need for a 3 deep squad is players that are in the system, know the calls, know their roles, know the ethos, know every minute detail that us on the internet couldn't possibly comprehend or account for.
World Cup squads are 33 man. Meaning it's mathematically impossible to have appropriate cover in every position. So we're putting in place a process whereby players are properly equipped to come into the squad at a days notice and have no bedding in period. Or at least to minimize it.
We're mitigating against the fine margins that exist at the top.
This tour is a good thing for Ireland and people who don't think so I feel are being too short sighted. Or their priorities are with their province. Which is fair
Exactly - When Ed Byrne was called to New Zealand recently people were complaining that someone like Josh Wycherley wasn't called instead.
At the time it was pointed out that Wycherley had never been near an Ireland camp and it would have been very difficult for him to slot in mid-tour without knowing calls etc. etc.
This kind of tour expands that coverage so that a decent number of players that might get drafted into a squad have exposure to processes and calls etc..
Also , it might produce a few bolters for the November series which is even better.
Having said that , if they are taking 30+ players out of the provinces for 2 weeks then all the Internationals need to be made available to the clubs for those games.
Probably a more likely case might be for a 3rd or 4th choice prop or hooker who gets elevated to a bench role in a crucial RWC game might be more familiar and trusted in the Farrell system to give a solid 15 minutes off the bench.
We're probably fecked at this stage if anything happens to Sexton and Carberry, too much investment in both of them and next to nothing in everyone else over the past 3 years.
It's not ideal to call this tour but if the IRFU are insisting on first team selections in November then it's better than nothing for the coaches to have significant time with the backups and future players.
This is very clearly (at least for anyone paying the least bit of attention) a premeditated attempt to destroy Tommy O'Donnell's confidence.
The All Black attack coach should hang his head in shame.
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