It will be interesting to see who they take at 10. If it's Frawley, it disproves people's theory that he only played there in the summer due to injuries (even though they could have called out R.Byrne/Burns instead of McCloskey for the 2nd Maori game) and shows he is seen as an option there.
Despite the opposition, working and training as a group. Will be invaluable to them. It will also probably have a positive impact on those players when they return to their provinces. Short term pain, long term gain. Certainly a very different approach this time from Farrell.
But McCloskey didn't replace Harry Byrne, he replaced Hume. H Byrne was back in training and they were still hoping he'd play the second game.
Intensely dislike the idea. Its either going to be insanely disruptive for the provinces or involve such fringe players that it is irrelevant in the context of the world cup and it takes a big steaming dump on the new URC just as its finally starting to find its feet.
H.Byrne did his other hamstring after the 1st Maori game and before McCloskey was called out I'm pretty sure.
I'm not a fan of it.
There's 7 games in the URC before a month off in November and the players going on that tour will miss 3 of them, possibly even 4.
The tour is to assemble on the 23 Sep, a Friday, and by the time they get back the Leinster and Connacht players won't be doing any training for their game on Fri 14.
If any of the other countries did this I'd be pissed too.
Possible squad?
Loosehead: Jeremy Loughman, Edward Byrne
Hooker: Niall Scannell, Dave Heffernan, Diarmuid Barron
Tighthead: Tom O'Toole, Thomas Clarkson, Keynan Knox
Lock: Kieran Treadwell, Joe McCarthy, Ryan Baird, Thomas Ahern
Blindside: Cian Prendergast
Openside: Nick Timoney, Will Connors
No. 8: Gavin Coombes, Max Deegan
Scrumhalf: Craig Casey, Nathan Doak, Caolin Blade
Outhalf: Ciarán Frawley, Harry Byrne, Ben Healy
Left Wing: Jacob Stockdale
Inside Centre: Stuart McCloskey, Chris Farrell
Outside Centre: James Hume, Jamie Osborne
Right Wing: Robert Baloucoune, Jordan Larmour
Fullback: Jimmy O'Brien, Michael Lowry
That's 32
some others who'd be in the mix: Peter Dooley, Josh Wycherley, Andrew Warwick, John McKee, Jack Aungier, Dominic Robertson-McCoy, Gavin Thornbury, Jean Kleyn, Niall Murray, Fineen Wycherley, Alexis Soroka, Scott Penny, Alex Kendellen, Kieran Marmion, Cormac Foley, Jack Carty, Jack Crowley, Stewart Moore, Shane Daly, Simon Zebo
How will playing against Currie Cup sides better "prepare" players for a big World Cup game than playing for their province in the URC?
I also don't think our squad depth was even in our top 5 biggest problems at the last world cup.
If we really want to "build depth", we should leave out the old heads against South Africa and Australia in November.
You're placing too much emphasis on who the opposition are. It's important for players to get used to fitting in to Ireland's systems.
Gotta hand it to Faz, he doesn't shy away from work.
Each of the provinces play to very similar patterns and shapes to Ireland
On some levels they do. Most teams in the world use pods, and so on. But it's an opportunity for players to get up to speed with exactly what the different Ireland coaches expect from them. It's about everyone singing off the same hymn sheet in attack and having as much cohesion as possible in defence.
Pretty close I think, yeah. Might want Henderson in.
Not sure how much of a fan I am of this, tbh; there’s 2 interpro’s on during this tour,I think there’s a case that the players could benefit more from being involved in them.
You have to hand it for Farrell tho, he isn’t afraid of trying something different.
It's a fair argument. But I'd be skeptical of just how much playing against Currie Cup sides will translate to performance on literally the biggest stage of rugby.
Like, say Sexton and Carbery both go down injured at the WC (which is a distinct possibility), will we really be saying "we're grand against France in this quarter final because Frawley looked sh*t hot against Griquas last year"? No, we won't.
Play the fringe guys against SA and Aus. That will actually prepare them.
We have a horde of lads who "can't get a fair shot", this should help on that front anyway.
This is very clearly (at least for anyone paying the least bit of attention) a premeditated attempt to destroy Tommy O'Donnell's confidence.
The All Black attack coach should hang his head in shame.
Probably a more likely case might be for a 3rd or 4th choice prop or hooker who gets elevated to a bench role in a crucial RWC game might be more familiar and trusted in the Farrell system to give a solid 15 minutes off the bench.
We're probably fecked at this stage if anything happens to Sexton and Carberry, too much investment in both of them and next to nothing in everyone else over the past 3 years.
It's not ideal to call this tour but if the IRFU are insisting on first team selections in November then it's better than nothing for the coaches to have significant time with the backups and future players.
Exactly - When Ed Byrne was called to New Zealand recently people were complaining that someone like Josh Wycherley wasn't called instead.
At the time it was pointed out that Wycherley had never been near an Ireland camp and it would have been very difficult for him to slot in mid-tour without knowing calls etc. etc.
This kind of tour expands that coverage so that a decent number of players that might get drafted into a squad have exposure to processes and calls etc..
Also , it might produce a few bolters for the November series which is even better.
Having said that , if they are taking 30+ players out of the provinces for 2 weeks then all the Internationals need to be made available to the clubs for those games.
Irelands biggest findings from the last few world cups have been lack of depth - something that multiple people here frequently attest to about numerous positions.
The rule of thumb appears to be to be in genuine contention to win at the highest level you need a squad that is 3 deep in every position.
This doesn't have to mean "3 very good players who represent their province to the highest degree" it means 3 players who can fill in without a significant drop in performance.
As a result I don't buy in to "oh but they play for their provinces every week" or "they play similar styles of rugby" etc etc.
What we need for a 3 deep squad is players that are in the system, know the calls, know their roles, know the ethos, know every minute detail that us on the internet couldn't possibly comprehend or account for.
World Cup squads are 33 man. Meaning it's mathematically impossible to have appropriate cover in every position. So we're putting in place a process whereby players are properly equipped to come into the squad at a days notice and have no bedding in period. Or at least to minimize it.
We're mitigating against the fine margins that exist at the top.
This tour is a good thing for Ireland and people who don't think so I feel are being too short sighted. Or their priorities are with their province. Which is fair
My priorities are not with the provinces, I have concerns about the further undermining of a club/provincial tournament across 5 countries. The URC is important and this is just pointlessly causing it damage.
You want them to learn calls etc you can do that in camps in Ireland. We already give the international coaches more access to the players than most other countries could dream of. They will learn nothing playing games against utterly woeful South African sides so that element of the whole thing is just pointless.
Irelands biggest findings from the last few world cups have been lack of depth
Also this just isn't true.
I wonder if Farrell will be bringing 30 candidates who he is seriously looking at.
He might also be bringing 10-15 candidates he is seriously looking at and fill the squad out with young guns that would be in a provincial A squad if it had some competition.
IRFU wont be shelling out for this unless there is benefits to it. AF won't be putting it together unless he sees benefits to it.
With no tour next summer, its a chance to bring guys a level down on a tour, away from home to get them acquainted with life in Ireland camp under the current coach, something many of those going might not have experienced previously.
Just because you don't see the benefit doesnt mean its pointless
The IRFU and Andy Farrell are not omnipotent demigods. I doubt they do anything they don't see a reason for - they are regularly incorrect (as am I obviously). Also supposedly Farrell is not even going.
This is not happening in a vacuum, it is an absolute slap in the face to the URC in what should be its first uninterrupted season. It shows contempt to a competition that had been injected with something akin to a new lease of life with the South African Super Rugby teams. It was refreshing to see the enthusiasm and joy that the Stormers showed in winning the competition, but now we have the IRFU reinforcing the idea that its actually something they don't care about at all.
Whatever about the merits of the tour in terms of player development , the idea that it's some kind of "slap in the face" for the URC just doesn't make sense.
If anything it potentially makes the teams for those few weeks a little stronger in so far as the front line internationals will all likely be playing barring injury.
Is the URC devalued if Sexton or Carbery start because Harry Byrne or Ben Healy are in South Africa for example?
I'll take Murray Kinsellas opinions over yours thanks
This mini-tour is a new venture on Ireland’s part, with head coach Andy Farrell understood to be keen to continue building depth towards next year’s World Cup and beyond.
Ireland’s relative lack of depth has been an issue at the two most recent World Cups in 2015 and 2019.
Fair enough, you're entitled to. If Murray Kinsella thinks a lack of depth was our problem in 2019 then I think he is very wrong.
They are taking 32 players out of the competition to go play Currie Cup sides in South Africa. Of course it is a slap in the face of the URC.
It remains to be seen what the squad is but there is very little chance that every player selected here is going to be replaced in the provincial squads with an international. As usual, Leinster will be fine but suspect Ulster in particular to be hard hit.
I wonder if he is getting any inside information.
The inplication here is that the squad will be a mix between fringe internationals and high potential young players who probably do belong in a provincial a squad.
This might mean that the 4 provinces are down 15 players who would have started in urc games instead of being down 30. That's a much smaller effect on the league.
Lack of depth was absolutely not our problem in 2019. We had almost everyone fit and healthy, think Herring was about the only injury absentee and Aki was suspended.
A lot of things went wrong in 2019 but not having enough players wasn't the issue.
And to be honest, lack of depth wasn't our problem in 2015 either. The sort of depth we'd have needed to absorb all those key absences will always be beyond a country with our player pool.
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