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Tree choosing advice, please

DylanQuestion

I am looking to plant a tree in a small front garden. I'd love to do a Liquidamber, but the ultimate 8m spread scares me. Is it possible to prune these trees to a smaller spread? And if not, do you know of any trees with the same orange/red autumn colour that doesn't have as large of a spread? Thank you! The width from the house to the footpath isn't a concern, but there is only 10ft from one edge of the grass to the neighbours'

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Car99

Ornamental pear .

DylanQuestion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119528864#Comment_119528864

I have heard some pears have smell issues, would these be the same? I saw they have an ultimate spread of 8m too. Do they respond well to pruning? It's not the end of the world if some overhangs the neighbours.

Do you know if 8m spread is from one side of the tree to the other, or just from the trunk out (i.e. actually 16m)

blackbox

Amelanchier might be worth considering.

Car99

I'd ask a tree specialist like the Irish tree center in Kildorrery , Cork for specifics on the variety you choose. They know their stuff and have small to mature trees available.

Kaybaykwah

I would check first if you have anything buried near the area you will be planting. You could also look for any info put out by your electric power company about ideal trees for your size property, and obstacles to check for related to the growth of certain species.

Think of giving the maximum room for the tree’s optimal diameter in regard to your house, and other obstacles.

Good luck on choosing a nice tree! It is one of the more pleasant things you can do for posterity. I drive by one oak tree I planted when my first son was born at our old house, and it is absolutely massive. It turns a deep red and then bronze colo(u)r in the fall, and keeps its leaves through our arctic winter.

The Continental Op

If you are going to get Liquidamber then one of the best varieties is Worplesdon. On poor dry soil ours (grown in Worplesdon but probably not that actual variety) never really got much about 5 meters (if that) in 20 years.

Thinking back to that garden and trying to think of smaller trees with similar autumn colour then it might be worth thinking about Parrotia persica - Ironwood. Cornus kousa var. chinensis - total classic if grown well - most varieties of Cornus kousa would be good and Cornus mas varieties would be worth looking at, note same family as the dogwoods but nothing like them in growth habit. Cercidiphyllum japonicum - Katsura Tree which some think is the best autumn colour of them all (had it growning near a Liquidamber and the Cercidiphyllum colours were much darker).

looksee

Don't plant a tree on the basis that you are going to prune it to keep it under control. You will end up with one of those stunted lollipops so beloved of some tree-hacking obsessively tidy gardeners.

Leg End Reject

I'm seriously considering a hawthorn for a similar front garden. It doesn't have autumn colour but the gnarled branches look very architectural in winter and it won't block light. Also great for wildlife.

DylanQuestion

Thank you all for your advice! The garden itself isn't too small, however there is also a 3 year old prunus nigra planted there. it was the first tree we planted (have planted two red oaks since in our hedgerow) so we didn't really do it right. It is growing lopsided. I have no intention of wanting a lollipop, polloped, ugly looking thing. But I do regret how we planted that tree, so was thinking a second one would offset it but would need to be small. However, talking with some others in my house, we think what we'll do instead is cut it down (maybe 6ft tall rn, 2ft spread max so it shouldn't have too thick of a root network). Then we'd plant the Liquidamber (Cotinential Op, you said Worplsedon, that's exactly the one stocked in the tree nursery nearest to me) in its place. Although I also love the look of the Parrotia persica - Ironwood, I'm just not sure if anyone near us would have it

At its longest, the house is 8m away from the footpath, with all grass in between. At its widest, it is around 4.5m. There is a silver birch on the footpath and our neighbour has a 30 year old whitebeam in their garden

The Continental Op

Prunus nigra wouldn't be something I'd worry about unless you had paid a lot for it. If its wrong then take it out.

DylanQuestion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119529529#Comment_119529529

€30 when it was maybe 4ft. Not a problem at all! Thanks again for all of the help :)

magicbastarder

an acer would be an obvious alternative for a tree with good colour in the autumn, i reckon. also has the advantage of being available in a range of sizes.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119530177#Comment_119530177

Great looking trees but I'm always wary of recommending them as they can be expensive and don't always do well. For anyone with an established garden then great add some acers but I wouldn't recommend them as individual specimens. I've grown many of the Japanese cut leafed varieties and tbh probably planted about 3 times more than ever grew well.

Sorry I'm assuming you mean Japanese acers and not the likes of Norway maple, sugar maple, sycamore etc... Actually one reliable one I can think of is a little different and fairly reliable is Acer cappadocicum. The var. Rubrum starts off with red tinged leaves goes green and has in my experience a good yellow Autumn colour but yellow leaved Aureum is probably the commonest variety. Which reminds me I've noticed someone with Acer cappadocicum Aureum on my journey into town (its that distinctive you can spot it while driving past) so I might give them a call as its claim to fame is it produces root suckers so I might see if they want to swap one for something I've got.

magicbastarder

it was actually japanese acers i meant; we've got two, one in the back garden overhanging a pond, and a smaller one in the front garden and both are happy.

standardg60

By far my favourite Acer outside of the Japanese is pseudoplatanus 'Brilliantissimum', a perfect tree for a small space.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119530543#Comment_119530543

OK so I'm obviously being cynical tonight, another good maple but after its main spring display can look a dog for the rest of the year and has no autumn colour.

looksee

If it likes the spot a Japanese acer can be really lovely, but if it is not happy - usually because it is too exposed - you will have a permanent halo of dead twigs round the top of it.

put_the_kettle_on

If you're considering Parrotia Persica, make sure you don't have a heavy, clay type of soil. I planted quite a big one in our front garden a few years ago and it definitely doesn't like the clay soil. It's clung on ( just about ) but barely shows any autumnal colour.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119531044#Comment_119531044

The one I fondly remember was growing well in poor sandy soil so I guess you are right. Autumn colour just doesn't seem to be as good in Ireland as it is in the UK? If there is any here we get a storm and its gone.

[Deleted User]

A rowan of some sort. Oriental rowans tend to have terrific autumn color, great spring flowers which are good for insects and huge numbers of bright red berries in the fall that are beloved by birds.

getoutadodge

Japanese maple's yer man...

macraignil

I like the appearance of a number of the trees already suggested but some other options I'd like to add would be the spindle tree and the winged spindle which have good red autumn leaf colour and don't get very big. On a smaller scale again the Aronia melanocarpa shrub has particularly good autumn leaf colour with a bright red that gets going from late summer. Sorry to read that the Prunus nigra might get chopped back so much as one of the best small garden trees I pass is one of these that has been pruned well so the branch structure very naturally fills the full front garden of an older house (about 4metres by 4metres) and puts on a great display of flowers in spring and interesting colour through out the summer. Prunus are best pruned in summer to avoid them catching silver leaf disease.

Happy gardening!

Kaybaykwah

^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes the Winged spindle is a beautiful shrub and small tree. We call it Burning bush here because of its intense fall colour that is day-glo pink.

I heard on a public radio station from Vermont that it was no longer legal to plant there because it is considered invasive. I have three good sized specimens around my house that don’t seem to have spread elsewhere. They are lovely all year round. I have begun trimming them at the bottom to make them a little less dense overall.

blackbox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119560976#Comment_119560976

In my experience, they only do well in a very sheltered position.

hamburgham

So impressed by all the knowledge here.

looksee

One thing gardeners love is telling other people how to garden!😀 Swapping seeds and cuttings and bits of plants comes a close second.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119570875#Comment_119570875

Not sure if this has been posted but the wokery is nauseating.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/aug/28/james-wong-on-gardening-is-it-time-we-ditched-the-word-gardening-

looksee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119575727#Comment_119575727

What a load of garbage, dear lord, 'plantdaddy'? Urgh no. The mind boggles at the shades of meaning, the potential for finding offence, the acceptable terminology to be remembered - just get out there and grow stuff without the navel gazing need to tag everything with provisos and titles.

DylanQuestion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119529013#Comment_119529013

Thank you all for your really great suggestions! We ended up digging up the Prunus Nigra (its three years old and has a tiny root system) and moved it to the back garden next to a red oak. We then went with a Liquidamber (specifically the Worplesdon variety) to replace the prunus :) The prunus was about 4ft when we got it and is now up to 6/7ft. The Liquidamber is 6ft, hopefully it will grow well. Thanks again everyone!

looksee

I put in a liquidamber about 2 years ago and its doing great, in spite of having lost over a foot of its leader (it was only about 3 - 4 ft to start with) in a storm. Its going great and has just changed colour, very pretty!