Who shot Michael Collins.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119517779#Comment_119517779

Who are " those in government" ?

Collins was very used to doing things his way from a young age. Once Dev went to the US for 18mts in the WoI, that was that. He had his hand in everything. Made a lot of enemies by encroaching on others' brief, like Brugha.

Gobshites like O'Higgins wanted a blue flag with a crown on it for Ireland. There were a lot of very different men cobbled together on all sides.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119517898#Comment_119517898

Senior members of the provisional governemnt of the 'free state' at the time.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119517625#Comment_119517625

I also figured that the search for truth was something that you never found very interesting.......

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119517940#Comment_119517940

Deleted

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119517923#Comment_119517923

Like who ?

Far more likely to have been plants on the army council of the irregulars tbh.

Sinn Féin members in the provisional government, who had British interests, were more likely to have been keen to end the war. Killing Collins never achieved that ?

I enjoyed that. Those responsible much as expected. Nice not to mention Sonny O’Neill. In the twilight and confusion, no one knew for sure. I'm sure the man has relatives in the area too.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119518002#Comment_119518002

Collins wanted, according to some, to support a guerilla war in the north followed by an invasion at the earliest opportunity with a chance of success.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119518087#Comment_119518087

He was supplying arms to Aitken etc I believe.

Joeseph Balls

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119518086#Comment_119518086

They mentioned the Emmet Dalton theory though, albeit basically ruling it out at the end. Would have been interesting to investigate the Sonny angle though...

Sonny O’Neill must have lived a hard life believing what he did. I must look at his death mass card in TP Coogan's book again. He lived to relative old age.

All so sad. But shur that's the way. Collins might have died of a heart attack at 40 etc. No guarantee he was going to live 30 years more, solve partition and so on.

Maybe his best work was done 1916-22.

Cold Case Collins was interesting, especially about his cap*. They showed a previously unoticed entry point in the cap that indicates a shot from above and from the side. Of course he could have turned his head and was hit from the front or he was shot from the side while he was looking forwards.

*Some say it isn't his cap but one used to cover his head at the time.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119518087#Comment_119518087

Hillarious.

You will be telling me he had a quare one in Carraig Mhór next?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119518152#Comment_119518152

Maybe he did?

hekker

I grew up in West Cork, my family were close with the Hales family. The conclusion they reached in the programme is in line with what we've always been told and of course people know who was responsible. People just don't talk about it, it was a war time situation and they were particularly brutal times in Cork. Apparently that's his cap alright. It's missing its badge which was supposedly given to Sean Hales.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119518120#Comment_119518120

They did about Dalton alright.

I felt they left it at one of the irregulars as they couldn't pin it on Sonny. And it wouldn't be fair on his descendants.

Very interesting with Collins' grandniece. The men apologising to her grandfather. The family know the full story. Shot by neighbours.

Joeseph Balls

Was it an off the cuff last minute ambush in your opinion?

You probably won't say, but O'Neill?

They must have been tough times for everyone

Joeseph Balls

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119518178#Comment_119518178

Does Dalton not have descendants?

I agree about the niece. You did get the feeling of let sleeping dogs lie sort of thing. Maybe they know, and understand, and that's fair enough.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119518087#Comment_119518087

There was a good article in the Sunday Indo just gone suggesting that Collins was a somewhat troubling figure (and this was by no means a hatchet job on him). The writer was suggesting that by July 1922, he was more akin to the head of a military dictatorship or a 'generalissimo' with perhaps way too much individual power and it's not at all certain that he would have switched to being a purely democratic figure.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119518181#Comment_119518181

Once they asked for directions at Longs to Bandon. Ambush on. Came back the same way. Probably, 75%, Sonny O’Neill in my opinion.

It's very sad. I don't know what Collins would become, or Ireland. How he'd mellow with age. People forget Collins was a devout Catholic too. So the RC may still have been prominent. Though hard to see as much as under Dev.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119518199#Comment_119518199

I don't know, probably. But Dalton was a high profile army general, and exonerated tonight.

Sonny was an ordinary foot soldier.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119518165#Comment_119518165

I can't see it to be honest. There would not be enough polish going around for his boots.

He was all about appearances, from what I can see.

He dressed like Hitler, Stalin or Mussolini.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119518205#Comment_119518205

O'Higgins, Minister for justice labelled Collins a blasphemous pasty fcuker! Collins had more in common with regards to the North etc with the anti treatyites than a lot of the less republican members of the Cumann na nGaedheal government.

That Bruton, Flanagan element that always existed in that party, later Fine Gael. Wanting to return to the Commonwealth, commemorate Tans etc.

In many ways Collins found himself on the wrong side. Because he felt he could achieve the Republican ideal through pragmatism. A pity so many of the anti treatyites couldn't see his logic. At the end of the day even men like Dan Breen took the oath on becoming a TD.

wotzgoingon

I have no idea who shot Michael Collins but I do know who shot Biggie Smalls.

I'll repeat that I know who shot Biggie Smalls.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119517824#Comment_119517824

If that is indeed the case, it might suggest that the new state accidentally stumbled into being a peaceful parliamentary democracy months after his passing. The new leader W.T. Cosgrave was primarily a longstanding politician (even though he had participated in the 1916 Rising) and was not a military figure.

Collins was a wild, in ways childish man. Wrestling the lads for 'a bit of ear', bite their ear!

He had to grow up quickly, as most did then. Off to London at 15. A lot of rough edges compared to Griffith or Dev.

Imagine Leo wrestling Simon Harris for a bit of ear🤣

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119518132#Comment_119518132

So many interesting things about Collins. His father 75 when he was born. Youngest of 8. His dad 60 married his mam age 23. He had a farm in Woodfield. The father was a scholar, taught by a hedge school master. Proficient in Greek, Latin. A scholar of maths and astronomy. Michael learning fenian tales from the local Blacksmith at Sam's Cross.

SafeSurfer

The examination of the hat was something new and interesting.

Surprised that in an almost 2 hour programme from our national broadcaster they could find no room for people of colour in either the dramatic reconstructions or discussion panel.

Will have to wait for the 150th anniversary perhaps.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119518268#Comment_119518268

Getting involved in a gun battle with the ambushers was crazy stuff for the effective head of state, especially for someone with no military experience. An actual army general would normally keep his head down and simply be issuing orders to his men.