The reason I state that this notion of 'housing our own' is a redundant concept in a global society. Humans are much more intelligent creatures than we give them credit for, we should be able to park aside the notion of housing our own. If you did want to house our own who do we house first? Do we give it to people with Irish passports or people with connection to the country? Do we give places to those who left and never contributed taxes?. Financially there is an argument for a proper housing programme - it does three things - it builds houses where there is a shortage. It creates jobs for those who are out of work (construction is going to go bust soon). Finally it creates revenues for the state coffers. Housing shortages come down to a real divide and conquer scenario. We have single men, single mothers, mentally ill, those with physical and hidden disabilities, alcoholics and addicts and the list is endless. No one, including immigrants should be left behind when there is a sound financial premise with which to initiate a proper housing programme. Im glad to have a genuine conversation with you as you said minus the pot shots and labels mate
No we are supposedly one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Multinatiinal Corporation tax take swells the exchequer coffers yet the services remain crap.
I'm not buying that the idea adding more people will improve them
Dublin city centre has the highest concentration of foreign nationals. Parts of Dublins electoral wards have an Irish minority.
To claim all these lads are doctors and engineers is fanciful.
The vast majority of Ukrainians don’t work and if you look up the number of student visas issued and work permits issued; you’ll see that the majority of non EU immigrants aren’t here on work permits.
They’re unskilled workers in the gig economy or whatever, pushing down working conditions and driving up rents. I think, given the choice, the average Irish worker would prefer to walk to Boojum for their burrito. Their standard of living would drastically increase if we stopped handing out visas like snuff at a wake.
This country is destroyed with multiculturalism and immigration.
Dublin is a filthy cesspit and a no go area. Talbot Street and Moore Street. No go areas.
Irish culture being eroded and dissolved more and more every day.
1000s more arriving weekly.
When is enough enough!
You might want to go back and read who was being referred to - non-EU immigrants. That’s immigrants coming mostly from countries such as the US, Brazil and India. I also said that many of them are students who pay eye-watering tuition fees to attend our Universities, in order to gain a third-level qualification, which enables them to gain employment in the fintech sector.
The Gig economy isn’t just the last resort for those immigrants employed in those industries. For example I’ve known non-EU immigrants who as well as studying here in Ireland were working as kitchen porters and hotel staff before covid hit, and just by sheer virtue of lucky timing they were able to gain employment in industries which pay far better and have better working conditions than the tourism and food services industries.
I would be very interested to know in what way specifically multiculturalism is destroying Ireland vis a vis being a no go area
Irish culture being eroded? - Those Normans, Vikings and British people giving us their roads, legal system and education!
If you are going to claim what you are saying, cite some examples and we can go from there
There is a shortage of Doctors and Engineers in Africa I think we should be encouraging them to stay where they are and maybe help develop their countries ?
People coming here obviously cannot bring houses with them so when they arrive they need somewhere to live.
The ones with good jobs rent privately and might go on to buy. There are others who go on public waiting lists and receive HAP and other benefits
Both groups are fighting for limited resources and a snapshot of Ireland at the minute shows a crippling housing crisis and multiple year waiting healthcare lists for 1 million plus people.
You are talking about an ireland with housing being so abundant that it is available to all who arrive here. Maybe to rent or to buy.
That's all well and good but how do we get there? What are people to do in the meantime? There is an article in the journal today showing a population rise of 88,000 in 12 months. We will never ever get ahead if this continues.
Immigration needs to be curtailed. Sharply
I can't get on board with the idea that newly arrived migrants should have equal priority for housing and resources as people who have lived here their entire life. There are a lot of people in the world
Migrant workers are only entitled to claim Jobseeker’s Benefit if they have paid sufficient PRSI contributions through employment in Ireland. They are only entitled to claim Jobseeker’s Allowance if they can prove that they have lived in Ireland for some time and that they intend to stay in Ireland for the foreseeable future. Asylum seekers are not permitted to work unless they get a stamp 4. Most immigrants too are subject to the Habitual Residency Requirement (bar Ukranians) - https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/fc9c5e-operational-guidelines-for-deciding-officers-on-the-determination-of/?referrer=https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Habitual-Residence-Condition--Guidelines-for-Deciding-Offic.aspx
Same applies for the Housing Assistance Payment where upon a person must be on a social housing list. There are quite a number of myths around this ...
Irish people are also aging fast - https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/7908d-minister-donohoe-publishes-population-ageing-and-the-public-finances-in-ireland-report/#:~:text=The%20scientific%20evidence%20is%20clear,medium%2D%20and%20longer%2Dterm.
More immigrant labour will be needed
Usually you need proof of funds and/or a return ticket.
Plus you get no help from the government. You don't want to work in Aus/NZ you go broke. The government ain't gonna help you there.
Not like here where you can rock up to a country that a few weeks ago you probably couldn't find on a map and get accommodation, food and some money to boot.
Why do you think they come here to study and then return to Africa? They’re doing what you’re suggesting should be done without you even doing anything.
I genuinely don’t know what anti immigration people expect to happen if we don’t import workers
When they look at their pensions and think 'oh its not a lot'...!
The two are seperate issues and not intertwined all that much - there are vacant properties so your ire should be at the government policy on housing and not immigration
https://www.thejournal.ie/vacant-properties-cso-5797970-Jun2022/#:~:text=Census%20shows%20166%2C000%20vacant%20properties,48%2C000%20vacant%20for%20six%20years
You mean a bed in a hostel, meagre scraps and twenty quid a week are the ultimate goal in life? Ive my priorites wrong!
An example
https://www.independent.ie/regionals/herald/news/over-half-on-housing-list-are-foreign-27973856.html
This article from the Independent in 2011 ( media would be terrified to print similar nowadays) states that half the people on the public waiting list were foreign born with 1/3 of that figure being non EU people.
It also states that while people are waiting for public housing they are entitled to "claim rent allowance while they wait for public housing" which at that time was taking 6 years.
Imagine what the situation is like now.
Back to the current situation. As I said 88,000 people arrived in 12 months. Its unsustainable. We know that there isn't the housing , the healthcare to accommodate this many people . We are a victim of our own success but our infrastructure has fallen behind.
For the quality of life and the social contract of those living here we need to curtail immigration where possible.
Yeah this is definitely happening.
I’m not sure that you fully grasp demographics
A bit dramatic. A room in a Travel Lodge and a full Shake Dog restaurant to yourself ain't bad.
I brought my children to the playground earlier. If this is the New Ireland, get me on the next plane out of here with my precious children. Gangs of New Irish teenage scumbags ripping up the playground, shouting and roaring, spitting and cursing and intimidating smaller children- kicking their ball away and not letting them play on rides.
Just the type of people we need here, not.
Fine Dining at its best.
Yet 100k + vacant homes there that could be used. Most of the backlog is in the rental market where there are private tenants and these landlord dont accept HAP. There is a disconnection as those on the waiting list for council housing are the only ones to can access HAP and with 98% being private landlords not accepting it then it doesnt bode well for your argument mon cheri
Did you ever hear of the story with Japan who had to loosen their immigration policy? This was to counter a lack of people to fill jobs...aging population as above...I mean we could just discourage contraception like the church did I suppose!
It’s happening, and what’s more, Irish people are studying abroad and then returning to practice in Ireland, before they decide to emigrate again to other countries where there are better work practices, conditions and standards of living, much like the immigrants who come here to study, and then either return to their countries of origin, or move on to another country for the same reasons as Irish people -
https://human-resources-health.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12960-016-0121-z
Not at all
How else do we fund a pension pot?
Thats basic economics!
I bet you’d be against the retirement age being raised to 68, or higher, as well, right?
All the Asian countries do. As did Russia when I went there decades ago. Every country I've worked in (outside of the EU) has required visas to be connected with employment, and generally speaking, the employer is required to ensure that the employee has accommodation. This might be company owned apartments, or rental amounts given in addition to the salaries, but there's usually some help in getting a place found. And then, the registration with the local police department, which is co-signed by a member of the company [any move to another apartment requires a fresh registration with the police of that district].
Most countries are strict about their visas. Yes, people live illegally (in those countries I've lived in), but they're deported when caught (unless the police can be bribed, but there's an expiry date on that as the payments keep increasing until it's unsustainable, leading to a deportation anyway).
The truth is that it's only in Western nations that we're expected to be soft on immigration. Many countries outside of Europe are pretty hard on those who overstay visas, or can't support themselves.. and rightly so.
When I got my Australian work visa, the requirement was to have 5000 Aus dollars in your bank account at the time of the visa application. You showed a bank statement to prove that you had the reserves to live off if things went sour. Most people I spoke to ended up transferring in money for the statement, and then transferring it out again to whoever provided the funds. No idea what the amount is these days.
Australian visas, apart from the working holiday, are tied directly to employment, until you can gain permanent residency. Which can be difficult as there are limited applications allowed per catchment region. You still need to have a job skill set that is in demand, and a sponsor though.. Studying and getting your Masters in Oz is a good way to get residency, although it depends on your discipline. One of the reasons you see so many Asians in Oz, is because most of them got accounting/finance degrees there.
Except, we're not anti-immigration. We're against stupid and short-sighted policies.
Most posters here are fully supportive of skilled/educated migrants who fill a demand in the economy, and who could easily find employment again if laid off. The problem is with low skilled workers, as with Ireland's population (and technological advances), the scope for low skilled jobs is limited, and we already have a population capable of doing that work. We have had decades of immigration already. And with any recession, it is the jobs for low-skilled workers that will be cut quickest, because those industries have the tightest profit margins.
I genuinely don't know what the pro-immigration think when they look at the Irish economy, and what happens over the years.. People who come here, and become established are not going to leave when they can rely on welfare to carry them. So, you encourage more immigration each year.. great. What happens during the slow economic periods? What happens when there aren't the jobs to employ and employers have so much choice, that they can lower wages (not salaries)?
Each year, the pro-immigration crowd cry out for more immigration, but they're not considering how much our population has increased over the last two decades... and how that population will be provided for. It's easy to be generous during the good times.. but there's no guarantee that the good times will continue, and how long will the bad times last for? You really expect people to just leave? Some will, but many more will remain. After all, they've been told they've got the same rights as citizens.
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