The key elements include six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously; 16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously; additional high power chargers at 34 current 50 kW locations; upgrading over 50 22 kW chargers to 50 kW, and replacing up to 264 locations with 528 charge points at the pre-existing pilot grade of 22 kW to next generation high reliability models.
In this setup you can charge 2 cars at once regardless of socket, so it's the same as the ecars setup at kilcullen except only one physical unit instead of 2?
How much extra does adding the Chademo plug cost? Some people on here recon it's about €100 per plug. To me a €400 once off payment to bring in the 30% of leaf drivers (and don't forget the early tesla adapters) doesn't really scream "Wasteful" but each to their own
Sorry to fact check you
At kilcullen if the right cars show up you can charge 4.
Say the following: Zoe on AC 43. ID 3 on CCS 50kW , then HPC CCS in use by model 3 and HPC Chademo in use by an outlander phev (could be any chademo car)
I'm happy to be fact checked, no apology needed. So you are saying the CCS/Chademo (HPC) box can charge a CCS and Chademo at the same time? That I didn't know, and is a bit of a waste.
If a unit can charge 2 cars it should have at least 4 plugs
How is the same? The Delta unit has two cable. If CCS is in use only CHAdeMO cars can use the other side. If the 50kW is used by another CHAdeMO, which is sensible giving the fact that they can't charge faster anyway, all is lost.
Which comment was completely inaccurate?
The HPC can charge both CCS & CHAdeMO simultaneity.
Kilcullen can charge 3 cars simultaneously, as can most of the sites with a HPC & FCP. The issue I and most have is the HPC only has a single CCS plug on it. If it had 2x CCS and 1 CHAdeMO, it could still charge 2 cars at once, but crucially 2 cars could be CCS.
Probably worth reading my comment again with teh knowledge that the HPC can charge 2 cars at once.
It's impossible to square this circle and keep everybody happy :-)
The Delta unit can have a CCS and CHAdeMO cable on each side to cater for all CCS/CHAdeMO scenarios.
Other side of the argument is that a 150kW unit, which can load split to 2x 75kW, shouldn't have a CHAdeMO at all as almost all are 50kW limited and older Leafs may only take 40kW in practice.
These debates may never end until sites are built in the Kempower layout. Sh1t loads of connectors decoupled from the power modules with load sharing.
The problem with your solution is if 2 leafs came along they could both be potentially waiting for the CCS car on the dual-side to finish, even if nobody is charging on the single-side. While at the same time one of the leaf's would be waiting for the other one while the single side would potentially be free to another CCS car to rock up and go
Leafs are not the future. Chademo is dead.
Strange... I still own a Leaf and the Chademo port works perfectly... Can you explain your comment in more detail?
If you own a betamax it will still play betamax tapes perfectly. Try getting a shop to provide new video in that format
I think the logic behind having 4 CHAdeMO plugs is that, in general, people don't consider other users. If there were units that cold support CCS only on one side, and CCS/CHAdeMO on the other side, then if a CCS car arrives and plugs in on the CCS/CHAdeMO side, there is no availability for a CHAdeMO user, even if the other side is not in use. If the site is busy, queue management can then become an issue.
Red Silurian pointed out an experience he had had where an owner chose a CCS/CHAdeMO point instead of a CCS only point.
Perhaps I am giving too much credit to ECars, but I would assume that their data shows the number of times CHAdeMO is unavailable despite not being in use and that it was decided that it made sense to have both connectors available at each charge point.
It's the same logic as putting both diesel and petrol at each point in a filling station. It would be cheaper to have a bank of diesel pumps and a bank of petrol pumps, but queue management becomes more problematic.
Sites should be either all CCS (like Ionity) or should have CCS & CHAdeMO available at each charge point.
Use is approx 75:25 at the moment between CCS and Chademo at fast and HP chargers as per the monitoring site shared by a boardsie. This is only going to decline further for chademo. As usage is currently 3:1, three of every 4 plugs should be CCS only and one chademo only. That's the current usage pattern. As CCS gets more prevalent still and the chademo cars die off, this will be CCS only more and more. No point wasting money and resource on chademo.
So we should always keep 1 side of a 150kW unit clear in the off chance a Leaf will arrive to pull 50-60kW from it, as opposed to adding another CCS plug in the highly likely event that there'll be more than 2 CCS cars there needing a charge...
Strange logic, but each to their own.
That's my point...
Try to find a chademo charger or somebody to repair a leaf or an outlander, which are still in production and still for sale and you shouldn't have too many issues
If we don't then we have the same problem you've been complaining about, except it's for Chademo cars instead of CCS cars...
Exactly. Spot the ownership bias. FWIW I have one CCS car (Ioniq28) and one CCS+Chademo car (X75D). That's as close to charge standard agnostic as it gets.
Would you open a betamax shop?
For nostalgia maybe but not for profit, because that's a dead format, unlike Chademo
Are you reading my comments properly or just acting the eejit?
My very point is that anything other than equal CCS/Chademo plugs per charger will result in an unfair queuing format.
When 80%+ of car sales were diesel in this country the forecourts were still 2 pumps per filling point because it's the most efficient and fair way to do it. The same format should be applied to EV charging
Yes, so better to favour the cars that currently account for 25% of the HPC/FCP usage as opposed to favouring the cars that account for 75% of their usage.....
In fairness though when even Nissan have ditched CHAdeMO on their newest EV in favour of CCS, you know the writing's on the wall for CHAdeMO.
I think you're missing the point. Betamax is a dead format. No one makes betamax format videos anymore. Therefore you would not expect a major chain to offer repairs or sell new models in betamax.
Chademo is also a dead format, no one sells chademo format cars anymore. There are a few legacy leafs but these are not new models and the new models from nissan will be ccs. As happened to type 1 in europe and type 3c in france, and as happened to earlier charging formats (like the long plane charger from the EV1, Ranger EV and initial Rav4 EV), these are dead. If you have a type 1 EV it will still work fine but dont expect to find any tethered type 1 chargers in the wild.
But this is the circle we go on every month. Chances are that more CCS cars would arrive compared to CHAdeMO. Currently on the road the ratio is 5:1 for CCS and it is moving fast. In January of this year was 4:1 and since then, new registrations are: 10443 CCS 735 CHAdeMO. So 7% CHAdeMO this year, which would be even less by the end of the year, because of shortage and Aria arrival. Anther way of looking at this are the absolute numbers. In total there are arounf 7k CHAdeMO cars and only last year new reg 7k CCS and it is growing. CCS cars are doubling every year.
To put it simply, the more chademo plugs you put, apart from the initial cost of adding chademo plugs, there's the possibility you'll block off a CCS car which is more profitable for the network owner as due to battery size they generally take on more energy in a shorter space of time (and thus more revenue). In 10 years time or even 5 years time, how many chademo cars do you think will be a) on the road still and b) needing fast charging.
5 years is a long time. 5 years ago I bought our Ioniq and could only choose between a leaf30, a Zoe22, (or a Tesla, which were north of 100k then and there were no service centers or Superchargers here).
And then we are back to the same problem that one type of car gets favoured over the other... Which is exactly the problem you have been complaining about, only in reverse
A situation where 3 CCS and one Chademo can charge at one time gets the same problem that you could have the 3 CCS chargers being used and another few show up... Would it not be better to have 4 chargers with 2 plugs on each in that situation?
You mean the Arya? How many of those are on the road at the moment?
Just to fact check you there, the leaf and outlander PHEV both use Chademo and both are still manufactured and sold
Yes, I'd say it would be prudent to favour the type of car that's outselling the other type of car by a factor of 9:1
We're not comparing petrol to diesel here, it's more like comparing petrol/diesel to CNG cars. Should every petrol/diesel pump also have a CNG pump? Because after all there are some CNG cars still out there....
Yes, I mean the Ariya, and unless Nissan have a sudden change of heart, it's still going to come with CCS as standard here, that's already a done deal. The fact that it's not here yet is irrelevant.
And what about the problem of Chademo cars queuing while a dedicated CCS spot is available? Or is that not a problem for you?
An outdated legacy charging standard that is still available on brand new cars? That's a bit of a strange statement
A second chademo would not be utterly wasted, chademo drivers think the same as CCS drivers, charge wherever possible regardless of price
The fact that others queuing isn't a problem as long as you don't have to is a bit narrow minded. EV drivers should be working together to promote the take-up of EVs, not attacking each other because their cars use different charging standards. Views like yours are a serious problem
