So the balls-up has started since last night which makes Fairview from clontarf to Edges corner a single lane with bollards down the centre.
This will be a permanent feature and works will take 21 months.
You could drive to Clontarf Road station, park there and make your journey to the city centre by Dart. This is where the traffic into town will start to build up, so get out of the car and don't be stuck in traffic (created by you and other car drivers).
This is getting stupid, but my point was that if it takes 30 mins to cycle because of red lights, at best it would take 20 to drive. You would want to be hitting every last red light to be getting up to 30 min.
It is quicker to cycle that route, in traffic, than it is to drive it. Even if you caught every green light, it'll take you more than 20 mins to drive it. I've done it.
This is what I took issue with and continue to do so. It is absolutely not 20-25 mins on a really good day for an average person.
Again, I've done it weekly for close to 20 years. I know how long it takes. There are days where I m not overtaken by anyone on a bike for the entire journey and it still takes 25+.
Hey I bought my piano in music maker and guess what, they delivered it.
Try walking from Elm Park road to Brixton tube station and see how long it takes.
Not true historically. I used to go to Sounds Around on Capel Street and Some Neck Guitars near Aungier Street. Now I don't go to either, too much hassle to find parking if I'm carrying stuff. I'll head out to DJBox in Tallaght or Jimi's Guitars in Walkinstown. Those who think Dublin is still going to have some magical fairydust luring everyone in via bus and bicycle regardless of traffic disruption and lack of parking are living in cloud cuckoo land.
For larger items. Yes this old chestnut. The roads are choc a block with people going to Jervis st to buy fridges and washing machines. At rush hour. Gimme a break. People go to retail centres on the outskirts for that stuff and you know it.
Anyway f**k people buying washing machines in town. We can't not do things like this because of stupid things like that. I am so sick of these ridiculous arguments coming up time and time again.
I lived in nearby Stockwell for years. There is nowhere in Brixton itself that's a 25 minute walk from Brixton Tube Station and Overground.
You're welcome to your opinion, but that is not how transport planning works. It's nothing to do with people being "snowflakes", there is well established methodology and data behind the 10 minute assumption. E.g. https://humantransit.org/2011/04/basics-walking-distance-to-transit.html
There's no need to be so facetitious. Loads of cars are brought to town from the city centre - or certainly were down the years - for collection of larger items. Go into any of the car parks Ilac, Jervis etc. This trade inevitably will fall off now.
People don't drive into town on this route at rush hour to go to restaurants or go shopping. Jesus Christ. Those of us from the suburbs that use this route will be well aware of this. I don't know anyone who ever drove to town to go to restaurants or shopping and spent most of my life in Artane and Coolock.
How do you people ever expect any change or things to get better with out any manner of disruption? It's a city, things change. It's like listening to infants wailing over toys or something. Pathetic.
does the 2016 census record at a granular level, how many people are commuting into the city centre, and how?
There's a very busy funeral home (Kirwans) located exactly at the point of traffic being diverted down Fairview Strand. I can imagine their business and routine being severely interrupted by this. Along there is hell at the best of times as it stands. Maybe it's been mentioned on the thread but one of the arches at Clontarf Road Bridge is closing also, leaving just one lane going in each direction.
Whatever about working arrangements, I think the city centre itself will take a battering in terms of retail, restaurants etc as a consequence of this going on until 2024. Not everyone has the physical ability to cycle or walk lengthy distances to a bus, or wants to. So for whatever they need to do they'll simply move off elsewhere.
it used to be an alternative to me and my parents and loads of other people I know. When I lived in Brixton I had to walk about 25 mins too to the tube, and that's London with its world class transport system. You're never going to have everything on your doorstep. People are such snowflakes.
Not sure it's feasible to present transport that's 25 minutes walking away as any kind of alternative. Indeed transport planning typically incorporates a 10 minute walking journey (or a simplified 1km) from stations to help calculate potential ridership etc.
If there is going to be private vehicles driving through anyway, and a lack of enforcement, we're all going to suffer with worse bus journey times too. We will see.
My point is/was that asking the car traffic in Fairview to cycle instead of driving is a non-runner.
Well I agree that politely asking them is pointless.
Providing equitable facilities for cycling as there is for driving (which in this case involves redistributing road usage to more accurately reflect the numbers who can use them) is the way forward which is what they are doing.
I pointed out that this is bollox, and that 95% of the people who live in the areas beyond Coolock would never dream of cycling into/out of town. Expecting otherwise is a fool's errand, I'd wager half of them wouldn't walk to their local shops, FFS.
Well perhaps they will change their mind when they have a safe, efficient alternative. No need to continue pandering to their laziness though.
Correct, you did. But this figure of 20 mins is also incorrect. It's closer to 40, ime.
It's 20-25 mins on a really good day (and I mean really good), and 30+ mins during rush hour when the universe conspires against you... And I'd be above average in terms of capabilities.
TBH if there is this much angst when there is great public transport and alternative routes for people coming from further out, I dread to think what the response will be when more substantial infrastructure improvements are made across the city
Some of the best, you have the most continuous bus lane of any arterial route in the country and then that has a planning app in for further improvement. Then further east you have DARTs providing 10 minute all day frequency. Few parts of Dublin and even fewer parts of Ireland are better served
I usually cycle to the office from Dublin 5 via Howth Road then Alfie Byrne but will definitely be cycling through Fairview next week to watch the queue of cars turning right at Edge's Corner. Can you imagine how irate they'll be watching buses and bikes taking the usual route inbound?
Agreed but if anyone is going to moan about the topic they ought to be near the bottom of the list
How do you think the city is going to cope with road closures and diversions when the Metro is (hopefully) being built?
Coolockian here. Loads of frequent buses going down Malahide road into town. 25 minute walk to Raheny Dart from where my house is anyway. Less than 30 mins cycle to Connolly Station.
More spoofing 'it'll be grand' responses.
We'll ask the residents of Fairview and Ballybough how 'grand' they feel in a week or so.
I know quite a few people who live on or just off North Strand and Annesley Bridge Road, and while I wait to hear from 3 others, two people have confirmed they didn't get any information or leaflets about it.
The area is a pretty eclectic mix of people but the sense I was getting is that most people are walking or using the bus for day-to-day needs already. ballybough road is pretty wide and not nearly as busy as north strand, but the congestion at 5 lamps will be quite, quite bad. And isn't Amiens street already closed to private vehicles southbound?
I agree that the bigger impact is for people who live in the likes of Coolock and Artane. Not sure the M50 and the Swords road combined can absorb the traffic that will still be on the roads.
You claimed that you were an above average cyclist, and that it took 30min to get from O'Connell Bridge to Donnycarney Church in an effort to show that it is not a particularly practical solution.
Incorrect, I never said anything about it being impractical. I also said that it CAN take 30 mins when the universe conspires against you and it takes 20-25 on a good day.
I said that taking 30 mins to do so on a bike is actually quite slow.
Incorrect, you said monumentally slow.
If it took 30 mins due to the volume of red lights, I claimed the equivalent driving time would be 20 mins anyway.
i.e. there is actually little enough difference between cycling time and driving time from O'Connell Bridge to Donnycarney Church.
Incorrect. Cycling during commuter hours is way, way, WAY faster.
Cycling is generally going to be quicker in rush hour traffic, but in light traffic driving won't be massively quicker.
Correct, but I don't remember ever talking about light traffic, so it's pretty irrelevant, wouldn't you say?
I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make anymore
Unsurprising, given your form in this thread. My point is/was that asking the car traffic in Fairview to cycle instead of driving is a non-runner.
The original point made was that there are no "distant suburbs" which go through Fairview, the implications being that anyone who drove through it could just as easily cycle it. I pointed out that this is bollox, and that 95% of the people who live in the areas beyond Coolock would never dream of cycling into/out of town. Expecting otherwise is a fool's errand, I'd wager half of them wouldn't walk to their local shops, FFS. You would be laughed out of it if you suggested all those drivers should be cycling in by pretty much everybody, including those who already cycle that route. Then you came storming in, with your facts all mixed up, claiming that you could walk a shorter route in a faster time for some reason.
The point still stands. Those driving through Fairview aren't doing it because it's quicker than cycling or PT. They're doing it because it's easier and more comfortable. If you want to lessen traffic, you need to either address that issue or else punish them by making it even more of a chore to drive through.
if your driving in from coolock you've got access to the "Best public transport in the state" ? was there an /s missing from that post ?
"Best public transport in the state" is a pretty low bar in Ireland
So true. And, most of the people that I know who are outraged by all this are either retired, don't have a daily commute, use public transport and as you say, have the best public transport in the country available to them.
It’ll be popcorn worthy for a week, maybe two, and then things will settle down and a new normal will descend, like always
This road serves only inner suburbs that are already served by the best public transport available in the state.
Well you seem to forget the genesis of the comments.
You claimed that you were an above average cyclist, and that it took 30min to get from O'Connell Bridge to Donnycarney Church in an effort to show that it is not a particularly practical solution. I said that taking 30 mins to do so on a bike is actually quite slow. If it took 30 mins due to the volume of red lights, I claimed the equivalent driving time would be 20 mins anyway. i.e. there is actually little enough difference between cycling time and driving time from O'Connell Bridge to Donnycarney Church. Cycling is generally going to be quicker in rush hour traffic, but in light traffic driving won't be massively quicker.
I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make anymore.
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