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BLM, or WLM? [MOD WARNING: FIRST POST]

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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,956 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    So what do selected videos prove? You want us to post videos of white folk getting shot by police? Or black folks getting arrested without getting shot? Which side do you want asians, hispanics or native americans from? And when provided, what conclusions can be drawn from the selection? Other than that every encounter is different.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl




  • Posts: 447 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    @Cordell - you're wasting your time, this exact same conversation was had after the George Floyd killing (on this exact same thread if i remember correctly). The usual suspects ignored stats then, they'll ignore them now

    FWIW at that time over the period 2015-19 (the latest full 5 years available at the time)

    • more white people were killed per million arrests of white people than black people were killed per million arrests of black people
    • the proportion of white suspects killed that turned out to be unarmed was higher (to be fair very slightly higher) than the proportion of black suspects killed that turned out to be unarmed




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,406 ✭✭✭alan partridge aha


    That's an excellent video, fairplay to the rev. for taking up the challenge and experiencing what's it like for the police 🚔.

    Should get Le Bron to do the same, it might help him understand better before shooting his mouth off.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭lmao10


    Investigation of the Ferguson Police Department

    https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf

    Black people are 67% of the population but they were stopped 85% of the time, given 90% of the citations and 93% of the arrests.

    They were 26% less likely to be carrying weapons or drugs than white people but searched 100% more than white people.

    When black and white people face similar low level charges, white people were 68% more likely to be have those charges dismissed when they went to court.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    You post all the white people shootings you want, happy to compare actions by cop and severity.

    Around we go with people claiming Blacks aren't vastly more likely to be gunned down by the police in the face of statistical evidence. But yes, if you want to wiggle out of the thread topic a bit let's question our jackbooted police forces in general - racism certainly helps nothing, but neither does the thuggery. Why did this kid have to die? No reason, disrespecting the blue.

    Don't worry, they settled, but that officer is still at large. Sure they fired him a year later, calling it a "personal matter" but prosecution? In my hole. Like Tamir Rice's killer they just keep shuffling departments until they find one too lazy for a diligent background check




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,956 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    You post all the white people shootings you want, happy to compare actions by cop and severity.

    To what end?

    As a 'point' it's entirely... well... pointless. Selected samples cannot be used to drive home any sort of argument or conclusion because, by their nature, they are biased. Otherwise they wouldn't have been selected in the first place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    To any end you want - it was your proposal.

    You want us to post videos of white folk getting shot by police? 

    Their lives matter too!?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭lmao10


    Examining Racial and Ethnic Disparities in Probation Revocation

    When black and white people who had similar situations were studied, black people were shown to get their probation revoked 18-39% more of the time than whites.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,956 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    It was to emphasise how silly the entire concept was. Apparently there was a misinterpretation.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    It was to emphasise how silly the entire concept was

    Discussing police abuse is a silly concept why

    Gardai train 5x longer than the average US cop, who is trained for just 21 weeks before they're sent hunting - ahem, for crime of course.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    before they're sent hunting - ahem, for crime of course.

    Are you trying to say that US cops are sent out hunting black people? If that's what you are hinting at, just come out and say it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    They don't just hunt black people, lol.

    They just also happen to be very proficient at escalating encounters - so happens we have stats that show this happens with more certainty to black suspects.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,664 ✭✭✭Cordell


    image.png

    The racial bias, if any, is small. It certainly doesn't suggest institutional level of racial bias, more likely it's the perceived threat based on certain races having higher criminality rates.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Somehow you managed to show a chart with a significant delta in racial bias of police shootings of fleeing suspects (18%) and used it to conclude the exact opposite.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,664 ✭✭✭Cordell


    I guess it depends on how you interpret the statistics and your own bias. I think they only reflect the perceived threat which is based on significantly higher crime rates, much higher than 18%. You think it shows that the police are hunting down black people - I guess it the easier conclusion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I think it shows that the police are hunting down people

    And that the police are demonstrated to be institutionally racist quite often (see thread)

    These two things are both true and, not necessarily co-dependent facts

    It would make sense for folks to try and pigeonhole me into only suggesting that black people are gunned down - but that has never been my argument, and this continues to be an ongoing strawman: "you can't be right about cops killing people who happen to be black, because they kill white people often, too!" As though that doesn't highlight the much larger issue that everyone seems in agreement on, that US Police use force in the deadly extreme, and violate civil rights on the daily no matter what your skin color, and yet we still must address the alarming rate of black deaths at the hands of police. That was after all the point of this thread, to try and frame it as a much baser Black vs White issue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I'd counter that it shows a lot of people not complying with the instructions of the police.

    Do what the fcuk the police tell you and there's a miniscule chance that they will shoot you. Miniscule.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    This again?

    The thread is chock full of incidents where a suspect complied and was still beaten, tazed, shot, or killed. Several, even, well within police custody.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    There are approximately 50 - 60 million interactions with the US police every year. A miniscule number of them result in someone being killed while complying.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    "Your civil rights are statistically negligible"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Act the fcuk, run, fight back etc. all increase the likelihood of the police resorting to violence and usually that isn't a situation that you want to be in. Comply with the cops and you have very little chance of being killed by them. It's not rocket science.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,664 ✭✭✭Cordell


    US Police use force in the deadly extreme, and violate civil rights on the daily no matter what your skin color

    Indeed they do, and racist organizations like BLM are in fact diverting the attention and resources from that. Maybe they don't want police brutality to end, because what will they do then?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Just shift the blame and responsibility all on to the public, "just comply and roll those dice"

    21 weeks of training and you're qualified for this job?

    Oh well Levar was a statistical anomaly, don't worry about him, it will never happen to you. Why do you think that?

    This cop in this video sure as **** sounds in his tone and reaction that it's the Public's fault for making him empty a third of a clip into him for a seatbelt violation. Either in shock or indifferent to his suffering and blaming him for the shooting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I don't see how you can think I'm shifting the blame and responsibility all on to the public from what I've said. That's a bit of a stretch. The point I'm making is that if you comply and don't act the fcuk, you stand a much less chance of getting shot by the police. If I had an interaction with the police in the US, I'd dance a jig if they asked me to. Only a dumb fcuk acts the bollix when they are stopped.

    And there's no point blaming the cops for getting 21 weeks training. Blame the top brass for that. The cops on the beat have no say in that. But in agreement with you, 21 weeks isn't enough training for such a complex job.

    Also, I'm not saying that there are no bad apples in the police force. There are nearly 800,000 cops in the US. Of course you are going to get a mixture of good cops, bad cops and incompetent cops. It's also a sh1t job having to worry about your life every time you go to work.

    And I'm all for prosecuting cops who act the bollix. Throw the book at them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I don't see how you can think I'm shifting the blame and responsibility all on to the public from what I've said. That's a bit of a stretch.

    Sorry I didn't take it personally or anything and didn't mean it that way. I am addressing this narrative trope, owned by nobody in particular, but culturally pervasive, that 'Just comply' is an insipid manner in which blame is shifted to the public, the same way other initiatives like "just recycle lol" divest attention away from addressing institutional pollution. "Just comply" usually functions as a distraction to addressing whether the police are acting in an irreprehensible manner. Institutions are accountable to the public, too. We seem overzealous in holding individual citizens accountable for mental health crises or seatbelt violations.

    If I had an interaction with the police in the US, I'd dance a jig if they asked me to. Only a dumb fcuk acts the bollix when they are stopped.

    And even when you dance the jig you might still be harmed. And this reputation for stern compliance with police is earned in Blood. Some of it **** awful I might add

    And there's no point blaming the cops for getting 21 weeks training. Blame the top brass for that. The cops on the beat have no say in that. But in agreement with you, 21 weeks isn't enough training for such a complex job.

    If we talk about this less often than we talk about "Murders in Chicago Last Weekend" then I think the culture has done a grave disservice to ourselves.

    Also, I'm not saying that there are no bad apples in the police force. There are nearly 800,000 cops in the US. Of course you are going to get a mixture of good cops, bad cops and incompetent cops. It's also a sh1t job having to worry about your life every time you go to work.

    Count the number of Departments now, 18,000 legal jurisdictions which range from very democratic to mini fiefdoms; realize they all can and typically do operate independently with limited national standard.

    Free link through august ^




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭lmao10


    https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/vortex-concentrated-racial-impact-drug-imprisonment-and

    The Concentrated Racial Impact of Drug Imprisonment and the Characteristics of Punitive Counties

    Black and White people admit to selling and using drugs at the same rates. However blacks are vastly more likely to go to prison for a drug offence

    Black Americans are incarcerated for at 10 times the rate of white americans for the same drug crimes.

    Blacks and whites use weed at similar rates. Blacks are 3.7x more likely to be arrested for a weed offence.


    You won't see anyone arguing with the articles and statistics I provide.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,564 ✭✭✭Sweetemotion


    Do these articles and statistics include the number of drug offences. These individuals have, before being sent to prison?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    I'm not going to read 36 pages. I have a simple question for those that have read it. Does it take into account previous convictions and 3 strike rules for example. As you could have a white person on a first strike and a black person on their last and will get jail. On the weed end does it take into account outstanding warrants and alike that lead to the arrests ?



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