Do people think the sentence is fair? I followed the case. I think it is about right. Probably on the lower end of a sexual assault case but i do think a custodial sentence was required.
Way to go to look and analyse this. Utter nonsense and not an ounce of nuance here.
My understanding is he stopped when she said no. So he understands consent. So where does the gap in his knowledge come that he didn't understand not to start in the first place?
The fact that shooting a fleeing man in the back wasn't considered manslaughter by the second jury when the initial trial judge gave that exclusive direction to the jury - because he believed that it must be manslaughter minimum.
Subsequently to that second trial we got a certain level of "home is your castle" law - obviously influenced by the verdict in the second trial.
One can't be certain of the juries thinking as they do not need to explain their rationale for their decisions but it looked like that to me.
Interesting , id never heard of it. Jesus christ though you want groping and mounting someone while asleep to be legal going forward?
That's not what I said, I was explaining the principle of how a jury could come to a not guilty verdict even when objectively a crime has been committed.
So please don't put words in my mouth.
Oh sorry were you not the poster who said you would have found him not guilty? Apologies i see you replied to my request for him to explain how he could be found not guilty.
The language being used as well is just completely out of context. "Sexually assaulting" someone while they slept? He fondled/groped, or kissed, depending on what is to be believed a woman who he had been intimate with already that night
You need to factor in all that went before, and what he actually did, and how she reacted, and how she reacted afterwards etc....
You are viewing this far too black and white (letter of the law) robotic, without considering at all the human psyche; our thoughts, emotions, desires, circumstances, thought processes etc etc.
He made an error and immediately stopped when she asked him to. This is the main thing, and when considering what happened up to that point, and after that point, this chap is NOT rapey creepy, as some here (you included) want to show.
Unless nearly all us men are: And although not the same relationship, many a BF/Husband would have done very similar, and nobody would be calling them sexual assaulters.....
Ah stop you are embarrassing yourself. How can you attempt to categorically say this lad isnt a creep. They werent in a relationship , your shite examples dont make sense. Talk about desires as well what in the actual ****, sexual assault apologist talk. As i say im leaving this here with you , we wont agree.
It's more than an 'error' to disrespect the girl as he did though. Your sentence re gf/husband I understand. But she was a stranger so it's not a comparable example. If he touched her sexually without her consent it is sexual assault and that is black and white. I don't think he's a monster. Very stupid yes but he did show some regard by stopping what he shouldn't have started.
They weren't strangers........they apparently knew each other, and had been intimate throughout the evening. Lustful, both them.
And this is just it: A married man and wife or BF and GF likely not near as lustful, due to them being together a long time. This was two adults of an evening who were intimate and in the moment.
If we stick to the letter here, as some want to: Many many men and women have initiated intimacy/sex on their sleeping or dozing partners. People do it. It's not odd, weird or creepy. It's humans being humans.
So, what people are hanging this lad on is the fact that he and her weren't married/partners/dating......
You are simply far too stiff and ignorant to be able to dissect and divulge the nuance and detail her
If you want to be so robotic/black and white here, then you're pretty much labeling all men and women who have ever initiated sex/intimacy on a sleeping person/partner/spouse as creeps.........and that is you being ridiculous.
The end of your post couldnt be more incorrect. People are hanging this lad for mounting and groping a sleeping woman. All your other crap is just drivel.
And your uppity attitude here and wanting to label us all creeps is pathetic. You'd have us all locked up if you had your way.
Uppity attitude because im against sexual assault? Thats some take , if you do or did what this chap did yeah id have you locked up for a few months. A lot on here have gone on like theyve done similar.
Ok, so all us men and women who woke our partners/spouses/lovers/booty calls up in a similar way to him are sexual assaulters/creeps? We all deserve court and conviction and prison?
Have you ever climbed on top of a sleeping woman and fondled her?
Sorry why are you saying partners? This was a one night stand. Id have thought in relationships people know what people are comfortable with? Its so mental that you keep using examples that arent the same as this case. Cant get my head around it.
Great question , somehow he will deflect.
You want to make this so so black and white.....so I made it so.......
this man is some rapey creep because of what he did with a woman he was intimate and lustful with, as she was with him. But if she was his GF/wife, and he did it, what would he be?
It's not a great question. It's none of the poster's business.
Okay well do you remember a case recently here where a bf was having sex/raping his gf while she was asleep , he got convicted. If consent hasnt been discussed beforehand -mounting someone and fondling them while ASLEEP is sexual assault. Its up the the person whether when they wake up how they feel and what they want to do about it.
Well one could imagine more awareness of what she did to this guy will become more public knowledge ?
Ah yes. Werent you the guy that said it was grand for 20/21 yr olds to be dating 16yr olds? There seems to be a pattern with your views. Maybe you are just old school...
And we are all well aware of what he did to her. A custodial sentence no less.
Well, it brings me to a question here: if a BF/GF were dating for a while and had been sexually intimate, and the BF did similar to what this did, because he wasn't thinking of sexual assault etc, and was more wanting to arouse his sleeping GF, and she woke up, told hi to stop, and he did, and she then went to the cops. Would you think the exact same, that the BF deserves conviction and sentence?
20 year olds to be dating an almost 17 year old......wow, shoot me..........you do know 16 is legal age consent in the UK, right?
More that he's being ideological
Can I ask ,can he appeal the judgement or sentenance .Imo it is very harsh when compared to sentenances in other criminal cases
That's another perspective
You seem to fall into the camp who beliees that because she consented to sexual activity earlier that evening, that he had carte blanche permission to just go for round two (or three or whatever) without checking she still wanted to first.
A ONS is not the same as a couple in a relationship - your wife / partner would probably just push you off or be annoyed if she woke up in the middle of the night with you on top of her, but these two were not at that level of familiarity with each other.
Can you stop, for one second, to consider how it may have been for this woman to wake up with this guy already on top of her, already groping her, that she couldn't know for sure would stop when she said no? Considering he had gone ahead and started without asking? Think what might have gone through her head in those seconds before she said stop.
That's the difference between two people in a relationship, and two people engaged in a casual encounter. Thankfully, he did stop. That's to his credit. But his mistake was in starting the way he did in the first place.
You can argue until the cows come home that its not right, or its not fair, or whatever, but the law is clear on the matter. It is black and white. He committed an assault on a sleeping woman, and as was her right, she chose to report it, and now there are consequences.
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