Do people think the sentence is fair? I followed the case. I think it is about right. Probably on the lower end of a sexual assault case but i do think a custodial sentence was required.
shitetalk not worth hearing*
I won’t get into discussing the mind of the victim as I feel uncomfortable doing so.
However, there are many instances in life where people experience adverse events with different levels of intensity- an “A” student failing their first ever exam in the 20s - for most we’d drown our sorrows and pick ourselves up but for some very few, their life is shattered as they haven’t learnt to deal with failure.
A victim of a non violent burglary - we would all feel threatened and violated but most would get over it in time- but there’s a few that may develop a great feeling of anxiety and depression as a result and may never recover fully
Im sure it’s no different for those who suffer an illegal sexual act or are a victim of any crime- we can all experience things differently
Have you ever climbed on top of your partner and fondled them while they slept after they told you you weren't going to get the ride?
Different situations in being different shocker.
So I asked you what you think is most plausible. What's your contention?
Yeah things affect people differently. Not that strange. The legality of the act is the first factor and the person's reaction is the second factor.
If you do something like this and the other person likes it, happy days. If you initiate sex with a sleeping person and they press charges, you don't have a leg to stand on, like the guy in this instance.
The victim impact statement is quite something. At least there are a good few people who are questioning the validity it.
It's a lot more contextualized than this.
This wasn't some prevert night stalker breaking into a woman's bedroom and trying to initiate/have sex whilst she slept.
They knew each other, were in each other's company, went home together, were intimate together, and then this moment/call by the man has led to a fooking prison sentence..after meeting about it to discuss it, where he showed genuine concern for her feelings.
He pled not guilty because he felt what he did was not what she was claiming.
Anyway, big big lesson to any men who are with women and are intimate, friendly and things happen. What happened to this man could happen to any man, wHen circumstances are involved. He is not some monster.
A prison sentence here seems way OTT
So you concede that HAPPY DAYS could have happened on this occasion...hard for him in reality to think otherwise.
You prefer a circle jerk then
Absolutely, but my point was there was a snowballing effect according to her own statement, not all that can be laid at the feet of the guilty.
Yes he seemed to have been the catalyst for the deterioration in her mental health, but she attributed blame to the system, her friends, etc.
The Judge appears to have based her punishment largely on after the fact consequences and not the seriousness level of the actual crime. She weighted it completely disproportionately IMHO.
I have no idea, that would be pure speculation.
But the idea that her friends and family turned on her because of pure victim blaming is not plausible.
And this man is the one who is suffering a prison term because of a victim impact statement that seems to have been driven by a lot more than the action of the man. An action that saw her fall asleep right after it...and wait a whole year to then report. Was this reported because there was a year of her feeling let down?
Yeah, this wasn't some prevert night stalker breaking into a woman's bedroom and trying to initiate/have sex whilst she slept. That would be a more severe sexual assault. But they're both sexual assaults.
Yeah it's a big lesson for anyone who needs to learn it. Don't initiate sex with someone who is asleep or otherwise can't consent. Pretty simple season, isn't it?
No, it's far from pretty easy....that is my point......we are not robots. We are human beings...
And at times we men and women find ourselves in situations like this....
A prison sentence here is juts bonkers in my view.
If every female decided to bring a case where a man tried to initiate sex with them while they were sleeping (with all the factors of this case considered) there wouldn't be near enough prison space..
Oh yeah. He could have gotten away with it. Certainly possible. But the problem is that he initiated sex with someone when they were asleep. So if she deemed it sexual assault then the law agrees with her.
Not hard to imagine the two outcomes. Consent is actually pretty important.
You have no idea, but you're pretty sure she's wrong. Is that a fair summary?
A consensual one would be fine. Not sure what relevance that has to the post you quoted though.
You have no idea, but you're pretty sure she's right. Is that a fair summary?
See what I did there?
That would be a more severe sexual assault
Judges wouldn't always see it like that.
That's why we discuss things, not everything is black and white. Particularly with the Irish judicial system.
There seems to be a very thin line here. Aside from the fact that he groped her when asleep which we all acknowledge is sexual assault are you saying if he initiated sex in a different way, that would be deemed as sexual assault too? If you believe that then half the country would be locked up.
I suppose he could have lay in the bed together...say nothing ..she heads off and she tells her friends he was no good in the sack...
Yeah it might be a pretty common occurrence. Best to learn that consent is important and not be one of those men. I think it's a pretty simple thing to learn. YMMV.
I see what you did, but it's not really the same. I took the general spread of responses from boards and assumed it represents the general spread of opinions held by people. So i wouldnt be sirprised if a good number of her friends thought it was her fault. Loads of people in this thread are bedding over backwards to say she's wrong, crazy, vindictive etc. and also saying he did nothing wrong and his worst crime was being gullible and not lying about what he did.
You just said "nah. She's wrong".
Not really the same.
God yeah, that'd be much worse than prison........
Well ive no idea what you are trying saying. Perhaps its me who cant read.
I'm not sure what you're asking. If he'd woken her up in the normal way and said "fancy a ride" or something to that effect, then none of this would be happening.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Exactly, what he should have done. And if she had then said no or lost the plot with him, either called a cab and sent her on her merry way or gone and slept on the couch himself.
Surely I don't have to spell out the different ways of initiating sex with a person who is asleep to wake them up without having to grope them. What I'm asking is would that be deemed as sexual assault too if she considered it was?
But that is nonsensical, like I pointed out to you already, the regulars on this forum are not her family and friends nor are they a representation of them.
Very strange conclusion you keep pushing.
My assertion was that her family and friends "shamed and blamed her" because she is a victim does not pass the plausibility test for me at least.
But again it could have happened, stranger things have, but I am saying it is unlikely in the manner she suggested.
You are accusing everyone else of digging their heals in whilst doing the exact same.
You have zero interest in debating what the Judge herself called an "unusual" case.
I agree with your overall point about consent in this case, for that their is no real debate, but there is nuance and scale. But you are not interested in that like you have already stated.
Begs the obvious question then.
Had she not said to him earlier on during the first sexual contact that a ride was possible later on....
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