Following on from
this thread
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Up until the last election SF's instant move was to run straight for the Opposition bench, that's reluctance writ large. They are also on record as wanting to be the majority party in a government and that's still not likely. Nobody is actively stopping them. If they can get seats they can go and do deals but they are pretty incompatible with FG on policies and quite probably the same with both FF and the Greens. We now know there are many possible government deals that do not involve SF just as there are quite a few that do not involve the incumbents.
The difference though is that some are more prepared to do deals and are more capable of it. SF have not not shown any willingness so far but have demonstrated an extraordinary ability to complain about others not wanting to do deals with them.
People are not writing off the Greens, a certain group of supporters are trying to tell everyone to write off the Greens.
As I said if anything the greens should go more hardcore and push for more Green agenda because that is what their supporters wants. The people that vote for the Greens have no interest in burning turf and that sort of carry on. Cash? well creating cash and moving it around, keeping it safe etc is just one huge CO2 creation.
The problem with the flip flop party is they stand for nothing now. What exactly is the agenda? well it is "whatever way the wind blows"
That may be so , but I don't believe, realistically SF had any chance of forming or being part of a government prior to last GE, the numbers just were not there , I'm specifically referring to last GE and I just feel it a little Rich FFG continously accusing SF of avoiding going into government when it's abundantly clear FFG Actively conspired to keep them out . Ultimately a decision that is essentially destroying both IMO.
with the amount of abuse fired out in the last two years I don't see any FG, FF or Green party members with much interest in joining a coalition with SF. Especially not the supporters who have been seen the brunt of the abuse online.
Well, voters vote for TDs who vote for Taoiseach who forms a government. If you don't get enough votes there's no government.
Of course true but so was the attempts to keep SF out of government but as you say, that's politics.
Not being able to do deals keeps you out of government. As observed above there is now such antipathy between SF and FF/FG that even exploratory talks would not even be possible. On top of that the two traditional parties could probably ride out a temporary deal with SF by spinning it as that best for country stuff, SF really could not, having spent the last decade telling their voters they want FF and FG out.
I think we all understand this , but again, my point , FFG conspired to keep SF out of government, that my point and they constantly throw mud saying SF avoided going into Government, Cake and eating it, so to speak .
Yesterday we heard about , Gardai, Teachers, Nurses not being able to afford/get a mortgage on the average house in Dublin.
We of course know they are not alone .
Change leaders in FF and FG and everything changes. This coalition was a cling to power. As was the C&S. If polling turns out to be what happens at a GE the game is up for the power swap. Martin will be gone and a new leader of FF will have a choice to make, continue the crippling alliances or to take FF back towards it's republican roots. There is no doubt about it now, there is division in FF about that and where Martin is taking them.
I don't think they did and I tend to view the FF approach since 2016 as reluctant pragmatism and it has worked for them in a way as a form of rehabilitation for 2008 and now as an opportunity to do things in government. It may or may not work out for them in seats at the GE. I do find the SF stance on both amusing where on the one hand they sell themselves as the alternative and constantly talk about how bad the other two are and then they complain they won't even discuss going into government with them. At this stage there should be an acceptance that they will not be part of a government involving FF or FG.
I don't agree. The AIB disaster will not bring down the government. It's super fodder for a GE.Next campaign down the line but it wont bring it down.
We are now in Dail holiday and the FF/FG rebels can waffle all they want but they know their seats are in jeopardy if they pull the plug. We may see Martin replaced after FG take over the helm but that will be it. They would be foolish to look for an election given those poll numbers.
So we should be safe into winter and the transition and no FFG leader will want an election in winter.
Q2 2023 might be another risky period but I really hope this government does full term or at least get to 2024. They will have a lot to answer for if we head into a deep recession and people realise how hamstrung we are with the massive national debt and already appalling services. And let's see how all their housing and climate "plans" work out first.
The opposition would be silly to force an election when the polls are only going one way.
We'll agree to disagree then, it's how I saw what happened, I of course understand its politics and of course Jibes go both ways, just feel it a little disingenuous of FFG to keep bring this Reluctance, Avoidance of SF to go into government IMO.
Yeah, that's a CB issue and they absolutely won't budge on it. Too much memory of the massive and ongoing financial problems post-2008. It will need need inventive solutions from the government of the day into the future to address it.
There is no question that this coalition has produced tensions all round but they need to hang in until at least 2024, in the hope of a better housing solution, as an election before then just loses them lots of seats. With Leo about to take the top seat again I don't think FG will be inclined to change just yet, but it could be a good time, when he does, for FF to get a new leader bedded in before an election.
Completely agree.
....who will take them in a new direction. Whoever it is, has to IMO or they will decline further. If people want FG they'll vote FG, FF aping them is pointless and destructive.
I don't believe it will either but a collection of deeds of daring do, miss steps , increasing tensions etc may , I was being a little cheeky in my predictions.
Personally I felt AIB'S decision a none story to start with, it's how it's been handled or should I say not been handled is the extraordinary aspect of this story and its astonishing the ineptitude, lack of communication that is evident , I also have my sneaking suspicions about Teflon Paschals silence for a number of days after the Story broke 😏
...its partly a cb issue, but the whole process of financializing our property markets has failed, and is now in a state of collapse, we re also not the only country currently experiencing this collapse....
Paschal seems have to have kept MM and FF in the dark over the decision. Very sneaky stuff from FG. I don't know how the FF TDs put up with them
Indeed and this the point I'm most curious about , all very "Sinister " 😏
This suggests there is no appetite for that but there are some questions about internal issues and the question is who can actually lead them.
No challenger.... until there is one, and that there will be one is inevitable.
Martin has had a fair go and cannot get their fortunes on an even keel, he'll be toxic leading them into another GE. What's the man who claimed he would never coalesce with FG going to do to offer something different?
I think anything he says will be torn apart and ridiculed and I think the backbenchers know this only too well. He's toxic.
The game of “find the political party” after the election proved unsuccessful for all parties including PBP
Rememeber the Greens actually managed to meet them before they disappeared
Its not like their supporters are constantly trying to rewrite history, you would think they are embarrassed about the parties history
😂😂
I only have issue with some of the NIMBYism, on the whole the opposition block bad deals. Long may it continue.
I was quite clear in my last response to you. Its FF/FG/Green that are foisting money making schemes for private concerns, on to housing. I don't like that.
Even giving some leeway to Paschal, it's simply beggar's belief he had absolutely no knowledge of the proposal until hours before it was announced.
Its the oldest trick in the FF/FG book, 'I wasn't aware of the massive move of concern to the public, within my department'.
Noonan used it a number of times.
Never mind the housing minister not being responsible for housing, they don't even take responsibility for their actual department. 'Slippery people' as Talking Heads sang about.
All the top contenders for the crown are damaged goods.
You said you are going to block houses. No explanation required
You were fine with department s objecting to housing when it was brought up yesterday.
FF/FG objections good everyone else objections bad.
You are spinning lies.
You know what I said, as I've repeated it. You keep looking to add your own fictional twist.
The non-acceptance of the facts is just embarassing now.
Not sure why you are repeating the same topic again?
I already responded and if I remember correctly all parties agreed with the department from the link YOU provided but it looks like failed to read
Last thing ireland needs is people not getting an education
